East Licking Creek 3/28/2025 Mifflin County

[jifigz]

I decided to take the back mountain roads home after work and visit the delayed harvest stretch. I parked at Spectacle Gap Rd and walked downstream a little ways. I only landed one native brookie. I had one stocker bow on and lost it. It barely fought due to the water still being so cold. Anyways, most stockers I saw were above a massive log jam. Otherwise, no fish came from the nice looking water downstream of this huge log jam except for the brookie. I don't love this stream, but I've had some very memorable experiences on it, but I've also had some lousy experiences, too. I tend to fish it once or twice a year for nostalgic reasons, but the wild fish pops seem to fluctuate a lot.

 

[Swattie87]

It was the place to be a couple years ago on a warm February weekend. I think about half of the PAFF viewership was there the day I was. (You were there too Josh that day IIRC.)

Edit: My FIL was upstate this week. Tioga County. Mostly a work trip, open up the cabin after Winter, but he got out a couple times. He reported very slow fishing, on a couple of streams I know are good, and mostly Brookies. Typical of early Spring. Water is cold still.

 

[jifigz]

It was the place to be a couple years ago on a warm February weekend. I think about half of the PAFF viewership was there the day I was. (You were there too Josh that day IIRC.)

Yeah, I remember that day. If that stream stayed a bit cooler and had a slightly better population of wild trout, it'd be more enjoyable to fish.

Although, like I said, I've had some really memorable days on that creek.

 

[Swattie87]

Yeah, I remember that day. If that stream stayed a bit cooler and had a slightly better population of wild trout, it'd be more enjoyable to fish.

Although, like I said, I've had some really memorable days on that creek.

Agree.

 

[troutbert]

Yeah, I remember that day. If that stream stayed a bit cooler and had a slightly better population of wild trout, it'd be more enjoyable to fish.

Why is the wild trout not higher? It's running through a forest. The water quality is good, I think.

 

[troutbert]

View attachment 1641240922

Have you ever noticed that there is often a pool where a tributary flows into a stream, and where split channels re-converge?

It's a good reason to not block secondary channels. Back in the day it was common to block split channels in the hopes of "stream improvement" but often it resulted in loss of pool habitat. Hopefully people don't do that much anymore.

 

[Swattie87]

Why is the wild trout not higher? It's running through a forest. The water quality is good, I think.

Not quite sure on that one. Agree, it seems like there should be more wild fish there.

I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect it’s slightly more acidic than most streams in that general area. Not really an area known for bad geology or AMD, but the wild fish in that stream are nearly all Brookies. It has Browns, but not many. It’s in an area where most of its neighbors are predominantly Brown Trout streams. IMO that points to acidic conditions.

 

[jifigz]

Not quite sure on that one. Agree, it seems like there should be more wild fish there.

I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect it’s slightly more acidic than most streams in that general area. Not really an area known for bad geology or AMD, but the wild fish in that stream are nearly all Brookies. It has Browns, but not many. It’s in an area where most of its neighbors are predominantly Brown Trout streams. IMO that points to acidic conditions.

I actually think this is somewhat of a head-scratcher too, Swattie and Troutbert. As Swattie pointed out, the wild fish in there are mostly brooks, but it also browns and, for a while a few years ago, it had a lot of wild rainbows, too. Swattie, you are suggesting it could be acidity which is keeping the browns in check, but are you also saying that it is too acidic to allow the brookies to thrive? The stream does get warmer than many other mountain freestoners, and it will hit temps of roughly 74 degrees F. Also, it gets fairly heavily stocked. So we have a possibility of high acidity, warmer temps, and a lot of stocking. If it is acidity, Spruce and Spectacle must not suffer from the same problems, because those streams, while tiny, are chock-full of brookies.

I don't know. I wish it were better back there. I just took a kid out to West Licking for mentored youth day. That is another weird stream, and I like it much less than East Licking.

 

[Swattie87]

I actually think this is somewhat of a head-scratcher too, Swattie and Troutbert. As Swattie pointed out, the wild fish in there are mostly brooks, but it also browns and, for a while a few years ago, it had a lot of wild rainbows, too. Swattie, you are suggesting it could be acidity which is keeping the browns in check, but are you also saying that it is too acidic to allow the brookies to thrive? The stream does get warmer than many other mountain freestoners, and it will hit temps of roughly 74 degrees F. Also, it gets fairly heavily stocked. So we have a possibility of high acidity, warmer temps, and a lot of stocking. If it is acidity, Spruce and Spectacle must not suffer from the same problems, because those streams, while tiny, are chock-full of brookies.

I don't know. I wish it were better back there. I just took a kid out to West Licking for mentored youth day. That is another weird stream, and I like it much less than East Licking.

Yeah, you make a fair point about E. Licking’s tribs being good for Brookies. They’re better than E. Licking itself.

I mean yeah, acidic conditions will allow Brookies to be present, but keep Brookies from thriving in a certain window that is too acidic for Browns, but I don’t think it’s that acidic. It’s just weird. If that stream was in Clearfield County I’d think it’s pretty normal. But in Mifflin, for the main stem’s size, it’s unique in that it’s not mostly Browns.

 

[troutbert]

I'm not a regular on East Licking Creek, but I've fished it some over the years. IMHO, the reason for the "moderate" wild trout population isn't because of infertility, except in the headwaters. Further down it has some browns as well as brook trout. Truly infertile streams do not have any brown trout. And some of the best brook trout streams are those that are too infertile for brown trout. And as jfigz said, some of the tribs have good numbers of brook trout.

So, I think the reasons are that it's a wild trout stream (mostly brookies, some browns) and it's being managed as a stocked trout stream, rather than managed for wild trout. Simply ending stocking would probably result in higher wild trout populations.

Physical habitat is probably another factor. When I fished it in the 1990s, the habitat was not very good. There were limited pools and cover. Some stretches were straight.

My most recent visit was about 3 years ago. I just fished from the picnic area up a ways, in the special regs area. The physical habitat seemed better than years ago, caused by numerous fallen trees in the stream. And the native brookie population also seemed better than it used to be, probably because of the better habitat.

 

[Swattie87]

tb - Agree with your post up and down. It’s just relatively unique, for what it is and where it is. There are many similar STW’s in that part of the state that are stocked, but have good populations of wild Trout - again, mostly Browns. They frequently come up during discussions of “streams that should not be stocked”. I wouldn’t put E. Licking in with that group, it’s not as good.

My experience with streams in the Ridge and Valley area of the state is that absent other obvious water quality issues (like AMD), the small trickles down the mountains are Brookies, but the main stems in the valley floor are typically mostly Browns. E. Licking doesn’t fit that mold for some reason. Again, for reasons I don’t fully understand, but I think it’s more complicated than just the fact that it’s stocked.

 

[troutbert]

tb - Agree with your post up and down. It’s just relatively unique, for what it is and where it is. There are many similar STW’s in that part of the state that are stocked, but have good populations of wild Trout - again, mostly Browns. They frequently come up during discussions of “streams that should not be stocked”. I wouldn’t put E. Licking in with that group, it’s not as good.

If at some point it's decided that brook trout populations are important, East Licking Creek would be taken off the stocking list. At least in the state forest section.

 

[jifigz]

If at some point it's decided that brook trout populations are important, East Licking Creek would be taken off the stocking list. At least in the state forest section.

Troutbert, I actually think the habitat in the stream is fine. It has better habitat than a lot of streams I fish, and those streams have thriving wild trout populations.

Also, I don't believe there is much of a wild trout pop below the reservoir, so you're right.. They could stop stocking the state forest section, and then continue with the trout rodeo below the reservoir.