Clark Creek, Dauphin County, 2/4/2012

[pasalty]

Fished the FFO section on the 4th as I have been most weekends this winter. Had the place to myself, also as usual. It was a reasonably warm 40 degrees and the water was a little low and clear.

Fished for 3 hours although a good 45 minutes was spent walking from place to place and watching.

Ended up getting 6 small browns, 2 small natural brookies, and 3 nice bows. All of course nymphing, mostly on size 22 zebra midges, but not exclusively. Saw lots of fish stacked up side by side with suckers in thick log jams but did not make the effort to try to sneak into a reasonable casting position especially since they were not very large fish.

Has anyone else been catching bows as consistently as I have this winter up in Clarks? I only moved to Harrisburg from the Conshohocken area this summer so I just started fishing Clark's this fall and winter and my understanding was it is only stocked with browns and brooks. PA Fish gave me a muddy answer about how they only stock browns and brooks but that their "partners" can effectively stock whatever they want, which seems like an odd management practice.

 

[Angled]

True that "normally" only browns and brooks, and in spring stockings will only see that with the PFBC spring stockings.

However, sometimes rainbows get stocked but is rather uncommon (sometimes by the anglers club, for special events, and maybe when there are supplemental stockings although I think the supplemental last year was all brookies but seem to recall 1 of the supplementals had some rainbows).

There are more rainbows than normal now but I suspect will see their relative #s dwindle once spring stockings happen. Seemed to me most of rainbows pulled a disappearing act in fall but were back in winter. Maybe they really never left and just hid rather well.

 

[Maurice]

There is a cooperative nursery at the base of the valley near the mouth.

So they very well could have stocked them in another part of the crik and thye moved into the FFO or perhaps they actually stock the FFO but I am not aware of that practice.

The odd practice would be to stock brooks and browns if natural repro is going on.

 

[pasalty]

Am I understanding you right that you don't believe they would be stocking if natural reproduction is occurring? I am fairly certain natural repo is going on in Clarks based on the large number of brook trout around 3-5" as well as some browns that I've caught in the 5" range.

My small catches this fall and winter wouldn't necessarily mean anything if they stock fingerlings but they don't claim to have stocked fingerlings in 2011 or 2012.

Did I understand you right or do they in fact stock very small trout in Clarks FFO?

I know they stock the Tulpehocken and that has natural reproduction going on, as PFBC has noted.

Either way I have caught a dozen or more bows in the past few weeks up there, strangely I've caught more and bigger bows there than Manada where they were just stocked in the fall.

Thanks for the info so far!

 

[Maurice]

No, to be clear....in a typical scenario where a substantial wild trout population is occurring; for instance wild brown trout, the state will not stock brown trout to avoid the cross breeding of hatchery and wild fish.

Same goes for brook trout unless there acid issues in the water chemistry where brook trout are the likely choice to stock further enhancing recreation beyond the wild brook trout.

That said, if the wild pops were substantial the likely choice for stocking would be rainbows. Apparently the F&BC feels that the wild population is not substantial enough to consider off breed fish stocking.

No fingerlings stocked in Clarks. You are likely catching small wild trout. I know I have caught both small wild browns and small wild brooks there, mainly up near the gun range and above.

 

[IdratherbePhishing]

I did not make it to the fall stocking but my understanding is bellefinte brought the wrong thing being rainbows and they stocked them anyways. This was in the Ffo area. Not sure how true but was told by an older gentlemen who stocks the Ffo area pretty much every time. I've definitely seen more bows this fall in the fly fish. That being said the hatchery president does throw rainbows in for kids derbies etc but did not stock last year. Most of them get washed downstream. I've also seen a lot of rainbows in the Ffo are beat up. One missing an eye etc.

 

[Maurice]

That explains it.....I've seen this happen too.

 

[afishinado]

Maurice wrote:
No, to be clear....in a typical scenario where a substantial wild trout population is occurring; for instance wild brown trout, the state will not stock brown trout to avoid the cross breeding of hatchery and wild fish.

Same goes for brook trout unless there acid issues in the water chemistry where brook trout are the likely choice to stock further enhancing recreation beyond the wild brook trout.

That said, if the wild pops were substantial the likely choice for stocking would be rainbows. Apparently the F&BC feels that the wild population is not substantial enough to consider off breed fish stocking.

No fingerlings stocked in Clarks. You are likely catching small wild trout. I know I have caught both small wild browns and small wild brooks there, mainly up near the gun range and above.

I share Mo's experience. Anecdotal, but I have no doubt at all that the wild brown trout and to a lesser extent the wild brook population is more than viable in the FFO section as well as in other parts of the stream. I don't fish Clark's that often, but whenever I do, I catch a whole bunch of small, wild trout there. They are often in the more marginal parts of the stream, as is often the case when stockies are mixed with wilds, but they are there in great numbers, nonetheless.

 

[IdratherbePhishing]

I've caught tons of wilds there in places you wouldn't even think held a fish. It also seen it where the fish have been stocked recently and they're just feeding so hard that the wilds start to feed crazy. I've caught quite a few wilds like this. I believe due to the stockies eatn everything and anything, the start to sorta do the same. Survival of the fittest I guess.

 

[TYoung]

The fact that you guys are finding the wild trout in the least optimal holding lies matches what I have seen on other streams that have both wild and stocked trout. The stock trout push the wild trout out of the best lies and into lies where the fish have to consume more energy in order to catch their food.

 

[GreenWeenie]

How do you know it’s the stocked trout that are responsible for moving the wild ones out of the best lies to the less optimal lies where they have to consume more energy to catch food? Sometimes what looks like the trout’s least favorable habitat to man isn’t necessarily the least favorable habitat to the trout and that’s why they are there. Trout would not relocate to habitat where it did not provide them what they needed and depending on the species of trout, there could be subtle differences in water velocity, gravel size, upwellings, etc., that are present in a section that to man doesn’t look as good as other sections but actually offers the trout a better habitat.

It is also very possible the wild trout moved out of the “best lies,” due to fishing pressure.

I know what you are saying and I’m not saying you’re completely wrong but there are a lot of other factors that can affect where you can and cannot find trout.

 

[IdratherbePhishing]

I've caught them in the Ffo with and all around stocked trout is what I was saying. But I've also caught wilds in runs where I didn't think a trout stocked/wild would hold. In fact I'd almost say I've caught more wilds in the Ffo and right below than anywhere else. I see what your saying gw and it's a valid point. And the pressure in the Ffo is a lot. That's why I tend to stay away from there now.

 

[pasalty]

Cool, thanks for the info.

I was fairly certain they were wilds I was catching based on all the wilds i've caught in small streams, I can just never figure out the logic to the PA stocking programs so your information shed some light on it.

Thanks again.

 

[salmo]

I have limited experience on Clark's. I have only fished the FFO stretch. I believe that I have caught mostly smaller, wild trout being a mix of brooks and browns. The larger fish I caught ( few in number) looked to be stocked.

Salmo

 

[Chooch]

Maurice wrote:
No, to be clear....in a typical scenario where a substantial wild trout population is occurring; for instance wild brown trout, the state will not stock brown trout to avoid the cross breeding of hatchery and wild fish.

Same goes for brook trout unless there acid issues in the water chemistry where brook trout are the likely choice to stock further enhancing recreation beyond the wild brook trout.

That said, if the wild pops were substantial the likely choice for stocking would be rainbows. Apparently the F&BC feels that the wild population is not substantial enough to consider off breed fish stocking.

No fingerlings stocked in Clarks. You are likely catching small wild trout. I know I have caught both small wild browns and small wild brooks there, mainly up near the gun range and above.

Not true, unless this is a new philosophy. A couple years back when Penns was hit hard with a drought and the population dipped a bit the PFBC decided to stock some fingerlings. Their choice was browns. Many of the us protested because of the reason Maurice cited. Penns has a good head of wild browns that certainly have developed a tolerance to Penns temperatures and conditions. Why put a bunch of fingerling browns in to crap in the gene pool. Rather, it was asked if they insisted on stocking something, they stock rainbows. First, rainbows are a little more tolerant of high temperatures and second, they would not mess up the gene pool. Best case some of the rainbows take hold and a reproducing population takes hold. Worse case, they are food for the existing browns. They did it anyway. Hopefully, they have changed this practice but who knows.

 

[oncorhynchusmykiss]

"Cool, thanks for the info.

I was fairly certain they were wilds I was catching based on all the wilds i've caught in small streams[color=009933] I can just never figure out the logic to the PA stocking programs [/color]so your information shed some light on it.

Thanks again."

Return on investment

 

[IdratherbePhishing]

That's a cool picture oncorhy.