Camp Run, Westmoreland Co. 5/30/09 and 6/1/09

[PGHFlyFisher]

I fished Camp Run on Saturday May 30 and Monday June 1, each time around 12:00-2:00.

Saturday was a bright and cool clear day following two days of intermittent rain. I fished downstream from the 381 bridge where wading was extremely difficult owing to narrow stream width and overgrown brush. The water was high and slightly off-color. A hatch of large green mayflies was in progress. I'm no expert but they looked pretty much like green drakes. Having no matching flies on-hand, I got several strikes on a royal wolf, but lost them all.

Monday was slightly overcast, the water level lower and very clear. I fished upstream of the 381 bridge where wading was easier owing to the wider but shallower stream bed. Nothing was hatching (plenty of mosquitos, though) and nothing took my green drake fly, but I had several strikes on a #16 adams and landed one 5" wild brook trout with stunning red spots and belly.

 

[tomgamber]

I think what you fished was Indian creek from the description. Especially the tight quarters. Camp is a small, brook trout enhancement regs, feeder to Indian. Camp is not hard to wade because you just step over it. Good to hear about the bugs. I haven't fished Indian in a along time but fished Camp with Albatross last year.

 

[LigonierA1]

FWIW, I can confirm that Camp Run gets a green drake hatch, though I have no idea about the intensity of it. I'd guess it's typically spotty. I've seen Coffin Flies hanging in spiderwebs when fishing it.

 

[PGHFlyFisher]

It was definitely Camp Run, according to the sign on the bridge, and it joins Indian Creek though I didn't make it downstream quite that far. You are quite right about how narrow this part of the stream is in many places, leaving little room to cast. Mostly I just dapped the fly onto the surface and let it float downstream.

Regarding the possible Green Drake hatch, yes it was spotty. I saw a couple dozen flies in total over two hours, and didn't see any fish rise to take the mayfly, probably due to the combination of few flies and few fish.

I have the impression that more people fish above the bridge than below it, based on a lightly worn streamside path above the bridge compared with the heavy brush at many points below. I'm curious how the access is to the mouth of Camp Run from Indian Creek. Has anyone tried that?

 

[tomgamber]

Alby drove me up a little ways so maybe the part you refer to I haven't really experienced. It was the term wading that confused me. Camp is more like walking in the creek than wading. Yeah there were only a couple places where I actually cast.

 

[PGHFlyFisher]

Very interesting! According to my map there is no road access to Camp Run except at the 381 bridge.

There is a dirt side-road heading to the east named Camp Run Road about 1/8 mile south of Camp Run (the stream) and a very small creek runs near the south side of this road. This is indeed a stream you could step across, but it is not Camp Run. Does anybody know the name of this stream, or have any experience fishing it?

 

[JackM]

I had the same confusion as Tom because other than to cross or if absolutely required to get a cast off, I don't think you want to be in the water while fishing Camp Run.

 

[greenghost]

You are right, I've found the fishing much better upstream than down towards the mouth.

The further up you go the better your chances of catching fish. Way upstream -- about a mile -- it opens up a bit and isn't quite as tight casting. When I go, which is rarely, I always do best up there.

I used to fish Camp Run a lot until they designated it as a "Brook Trout Enhancement" stream. I always had the place to myself, never saw another angler, always caught many fish.

After they "advertised" it, I began to see more fishermen and I noticed the fish seemed to get tougher to catch. I rarely go there anymore. The fish are still there. But I go to a brookie stream to escape the weary trout found in the popular waterways. If I'm going to work hard for a fish, I'd rather it be a 5-pound bow on the Yough than a 5-inch brookie in a cramped crick.

I think the PFBC ruined the angling experience at Camp Run.

 

[tomgamber]

greenghost wrote:


I used to fish Camp Run a lot until they designated it as a "Brook Trout Enhancement" stream. I always had the place to myself, never saw another angler, always caught many fish.

After they "advertised" it, I began to see more fishermen and I noticed the fish seemed to get tougher to catch.

I think the PFBC ruined the angling experience at Camp Run.

making fish tougher to catch is not a detriment. If you want easy fish, fish freshly stocked fish. Educated fish, as they are sometimes called area challenge. IF you give a choice between C&R and 5/person/day its not a contest.

 

[greenghost]

I guess it's personal choice. I enjoy fishing over tough trout, most of the time. But brookie fishing has always been my retreat. I go to those streams to take a break from harder-to-catch fish. On 98% of the brookie streams I fish, the catching is easy and the scenery is terrific. What bugs me about Camp Run is I know how it use to be and I had come to expect that same type of fishing there. But it changed. I didn't enjoy it. So I quit going. But hey, that's me.

 

[shortrod]

I agree that the experience has changed on Camp Run. If the trout population is the same and they are just harder to catch, that would be alright.
I do not think that is the case. I think the trout population has been impacted by the regulations placed on this stream. First the Selective Harvest and then the Brook Trout Enhancement regs.
I hope I am wrong.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I agree that the experience has changed on Camp Run. If the trout population is the same and they are just harder to catch, that would be alright. I do not think that is the case. I think the trout population has been impacted by the regulations placed on this stream. First the Selective Harvest and then the Brook Trout Enhancement regs. I hope I am wrong.

This is what i have feared with the WBTEP. Brookies are far more "fragile" (yes i used that horrible word ;-) ) when compared to other trout. I have no experiences of Camp Run, being that I have never fished it, but brook trout are all the same. Some on this board have said that complicating regs statewide would not work because the general angling public would not understand them to the complexity that fly fisherman would. We fish a lot, at least most fly fisherman i know, when compared to the general angling public. We understand that the WBTEP designation does not mean that it is a brook trout heaven, complete with large and abundant brook trout. This might not be true of most anglers though. Thus giving a stream too much pressure and tactics that would harm these precious fish. Mishandling probably being at the top of the list.

Another thing to consider is:

Small wild brook trout streams are best fished by 1 or 2 fisherman at a time. Perhaps 2 fisherman passed through the area you are now fishing 1 hour before you did. Spooking or Catching the fish you are now trying to pursue. This will make your angling experience much harder. So maybe the population isnt affected but rather the undisturbed nature of the stream has been compromised.

The latter isnt really bad for the fish populations but just your fishing experience. I fear though you are right and it is likely the fish populations are effected by the over pressure. ONE reason i refused to accept any of the PFBC's data on the WBTEP.

If they really wanted to test a WBTEP...they should pick a wild brook trout stream and close it to fishing and monitor it very closely over many years. Only then will we see if we can enhance the populations and size of brook trout.

 

[tomgamber]

They are only MORE fragile in the sense that a big white truck doesn't come and replace them ever so often.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

http://www.patrout.org/PDFS/The_Real_Natives.pdf

Brook trout are extremely sensitive to angling pressure and in heavily fished waters like ours seldom survive more than three years, the age at which they generally reach harvestable size. It's not very complicated: This is why native brook trout now average six inches in length and a ten inch fish is a trophy in waters that once teemed with 9- to 12- inch brookies.

Its true.......

We have all talked about how brook trout are very opportunistic feeders. This makes the pressure even worse. Leaving them easily harmed to over fishing than say a brown trout, who are generally more picky feeders.

 

[albatross]

PGH,

Glad you had a nice outing. My experience on Camp is that the further you get from access, the better the fishing. There is still much stream there for you to explore.

 

[LigonierA1]

tomgamber wrote:
They are only MORE fragile in the sense that a big white truck doesn't come and replace them ever so often.

I'd say that's but ONE of the ways that they're more fragile, Mr Contrarian. Though perhaps it's more accurate to say that they have more potential for loss than the white truck streams.