Big Hunting Creek, Fredrick Co. MD, 05/06/2009

[3wt7X]

I headed to Big Hunting Cr. for a couple hours yesterday afternoon. The water conditions were nice, with a strong flow and clear water which allowed the fish to spread out a bit. The air temperature was in the 70s and it was mostly overcast with the rain moving in about 05:00 pm.

The bug activity was amazing. I saw at least 6 different species that I could identify and a couple that I could not. The strongest hatches were the midges and the march browns, but I also noticed sulphers, blue quills, tan and black caddis, brown stoneflies and sparse blue wing olives. I also saw a size 12 mayfly that I did not recognize. I spoke to another fisherman about it and he advised that it could be a slate drake. For the most part, the mayfly hatches were sporatic, and I observed a lot fish hitting the tan caddis in the faster pocket water.

As most of you know, Big Hunting Cr. holds both wild browns and stocked rainbows and brook trout. I started the day by high stick nymphing and scouting for risers. I took two fish on an olived caddis nymph before locating a hole with rising fish. I landed a couple trout out of that hole with a size 16 tan elk hair caddis. After that, I moved upstream to the section below Catoctin Hollow Road. The Maryland DNR stocks that section pretty heavily and I switched to a olive wooley bugger and began prospecting the undercut banks and fallen trees. I took several stocked rainbows out of this section including a nice 15incher. I also located a deep hole that had a single rising fish and managed to take it on a size 18 griffith's gnat.

In all, it was a nice day to fish Big Hunting. There were a lot of people despite the fact that it was tuesday, but I found some open water and hungry fish, so I can't complain.

 

[JackM]

What-- no palamino?

 

[nativebrownie]

Glad that you had a good day. As you know BHC is within one hour of 4 major Metropolitan Areas. As with all streams mentioned, a wonderful resource to be treasured. Protected and valued...

I believe the first section that you fished was a Maryland Catch & Release Area, the code on the signs states that all fish must be returned immediately and unharmed to the stream. That is also the spirit of Catch & Release , not only the state code. I understand that this might be a debatable point, but do you believe that placing fish out of the water and posing them for pics is in violation of both the code and spirit of Catch & Release?

Just curious and respectful of another position on this...

 

[Fishidiot]

nativebrownie,
Photographing fish is not regarded as a violation of C&R. If the fish were placed in a bucket, then put in a car and driven upstream and then released - this would be a violation of the letter of the law. Placing a fish on a stringer would, obviously, constitute a violation as you are "possesing" the fish. Keep in mind, many bass fishing tournaments practice C&R but the fish are possessed via live well and then released at the end of the tournament. While controversial, it is generally accepted as legal in most tournaments.
Holding a fish or gently placing it on the ground to photograph before releasing it is fine.

 

[pete41]

What if the forum master posted a picture of a nice specimen of all the different trout and char -numbered them and then-people who felt the need to show their catch could take a number?lol
I guess I was never bitten by the camera bug.

 

[nativebrownie]

Fishidiot,
Well, the code of C&R does state unharmed and the Spirit of C&R would be to preserve that resource to the greatest extent possible, in my mind. Mortality rates in C&R areas are an issue of discussion within many groups. The Mortality rate increases with each second out of the water and with increased handling and with increased damage to the outside layers of the resource. All this must matter as one holds to the state code and spirit of catch & release.
The Bass Pros are monitored and have a live well on board. Those two circumstances are in place to mitigate the above situations. I am not sure if Bass are more/less hardy than trout after a fight and handling and time out of the water. Of course , water temperature matters too, and at the current stream temps (50-60), a fish has far more recuperative powers than later in the year when a played fish is already in trouble.

Thanks for the response - appreciated. Our waters are too valuable not to be thoughtful about all this.

Pete,
Good suggestion that would raise consciousness on this issues. This is a major forum for a magnificent area for natural resources. Any discussion among its members would help. Years ago, some states posted C&R regs with instructions on suggested handling and immediate return.

The Conservation Pledge was published in the 50s in Pernnsylvania Angler.

 

[jayL]

Honestly, I feel that fishing, in general, goes against the principles set forth by the true conservationist.

 

[skeeter]

And being on the computer???? Might as well turn off the lights and sit in the dark.;-)

Native,
Taking a picture, lets not be so naive, there are alot worse things going on in that watershed, state, country, or world; than a timely picture.

Nice report 3wt, I wish they stop stocking the stream it doesn't need it!

 

[JackM]

Regulations for a true conservationist:

 

[nativebrownie]

JackM,

Actually, I know of a few vintage authors who proposed and did fly fish with the end of the hook intentionally removed. Both asserted that all the fun was really the days astream, the surroundings, and watching the fish strike. They claimed the playing of the fish was anti-climactic.

Skeeter,
So, we don't control anything that could be a threat to a valued resource and IS totally under the control of each of us? Hmmm..

I agree, some of our waters nearer to our Metro East are so pressured and threatened. That is why discussion and raising consciousness is ever so important.

 

[JackM]

I find playing the fish anticlimactic, but I must securely hook them to feel successful. I don't think a quick picture of a fish is against the spirit of C & R. I usually photograph fish at arms length, but wouldn't lose any sleep if I felt the need to lay it on the bank for a few seconds to get a good shot. I think people fall all over themselves trying to be the greatest lover of trout yet would never consider fishing less often, quitting after a few caught fish or not fishing at all in order to love them even more. "Minimize Harm" is my motto, but enjoy yourself in the process.

 

[afishinado]

JackM wrote:
I find playing the fish anticlimactic, but I must securely hook them to feel successful.

Jack,

True for a stocked stream or a tiny wild trout stream, but you wouldn't feel that way if you latched on to a D River behemoth brown or bow…….ask dryflyguy who wore out his backing last week. It’s a lot like fishing for steel at Erie or USNY, but the fish have a huge river to fight you in, and fight they do!…….great fun!!!

 

[JackM]

Steelhead is the exact opposite as I'm sure Deleware River monsters would be. I even use bobbers at Erie.

 

[pete41]

must be behemoths getting into backing on browns-caught thousands and never got there-color me green.

 

[skeeter]

Native,

Not to exacerbate this stream report since this is not the correct forum to share our disagreements, but I think holding a trout for a picture is not a threat to the valued "resource" (stocked brown trout=$2.73(PA price, MD not sure)) and to control folks from holding a trout well, I guess your not a fan of seafood.

My point is MD is stocking over a healthy wild, brown trout and native brook trout population, there are two or three stream surveys to prove that. If you were me and your were concerned about our resources or specifically BHC you would ask MD DNR to stop stocking that stream and designate that stream as a wild trout stream. By doing that, I think BHC is a better resource, IMHO.

O and I don't take pictures of trout, I don't have the motor skills to do so. :-?

 

[3wt7X]

Nativebrownie,
I can really appreciate your concern for our valuable fly fishing resources. There are many steps that I perform to help reduce mortality of the trout that I catch, such as debarbing hooks, and trying to land fish in minimal amount of time. I hope at some point in my fly fishing career I can cut off all the points on my hooks and simply enjoy watching a trout strike my fly. I am not at that point yet and I think that it would put a real damper on my deep water nymphing techniques if I fished that way because I would have to assume that every rock that I hit was a take.

Regarding photography, I truly enjoy taking close up pictures of trout and their environment. I feel that I do so in an efficient manner with the least possible stress being placed on the fish. I try to use common sense when I land a trout and if I feel that the fight was too long and the fish is near death then I immediately release it. That rarely happens on Big Hunting Creek where I am using 5X tippet on generally smaller fish.

The main point is that you cannot please everyone. As I said, I truly appreciate your concern for our resources and have more respect for someone with that point of view than the opposite end of the spectrum. Honestly, if you go by the letter of the Maryland Catch and Release law, you are right. But I feel that my actions are completely legal when looking at the spirit of the law. I hope that my photographs bring everyone else as much joy as they bring me, and possibly attract some fly fisherman to enjoy the waters that Maryland has to offer. It was just last year that a couple of hispanic guys were caught in the catch and release section of Big Hunting Creek with over thirty dead trout in their possession. I wish that myself or one of the other board members on this site were on the stream to witness and put a stop that massacre before so many fish were killed.

 

[nativebrownie]

Skeeter,
Point well made on the stocking of fish over wild fish. DNR is caught in that dilemma of keeping people "happy" catching many fish.
Please revisit my words, I said removing from the water for a length of time and "posing a fish for pictures." I did not dwell on folks holding a trout. Since a "stocked trout" is merely a commodity ($2.73), what is the "value" of a streambred brown in any C&R area? Is value more than $, some think so. And some see a natural resource as more than a commodity that is valued for more than merely the immediate gratification and pleasure that it gives each visitor.

In my mind, this is no disagreement, all of these issues need to be discussed openly as the waters we all walk come under more and more pressure and threats from development in So. PA and No. MD. Those areas are exploding. You are right, we should all ask MD DNR why those fish are stocked.

3wt7X,
I apologize as my post is probably misplaced here within your thread.
I am sensitive when it comes to BHC. The history of that area is amazing within FF History and I cannot believe that any trout can exist there in any natural way with the ridiculously high fishing pressure of that stream. They must all be in therapy. I do belong to an organization that sponsors that stream. Yet nothing can be done about the exploding population of the 4 Metro regions and the various media advertisements of the stream. The answer is not more stocked fish - it is something else.
I apologize as you are so obviously a careful lover of all that we all share - the beautiful places where trout live. The proper place for my post was within the so, so many threads with Internet Forums with "posed trout" that must be long removed from C&R waters- particularly wild fish within a particularly endangered area like BHC or the many other streams of So. PA.

As far as the poachers that you mentioned - they really didn't "know" what they were doing, IMHO. I was on another SO.PA. C&R area last summer when I came upon two (wonderfully outfitted) fly anglers who were both stooped over a brown trout that they were adjusting for a photo next to a new rod. Polite and brief as I can be, I said something about mortality rates and trout and time out of the water and handling. They glanced up at me, smiled at each other, and went on with the necessary adjustments. Sorry, they should know better. For some reason, some of us feel that a "wild trout" within a public resource and a C&R area is just another commodity to be used as we wish - for our own immediate gratification - some of us.

Sorry, it is obvious that my post was misplaced within your thread. I have truly enjoyed your words on the isue. But I still feel that this forum could be one of the places where some of us could discuss these issues and just maybe comunicate concerns amongst ourselves and to others. Mortality rates within C&R areas is not new news at all - it is already out there. I listened to such a presentation last year.

Pennsylvania is blessed with, in the opinion of many, the best natural trout environments in the East. It just seems that a PA FF Forum should be the place where some issues are aired out and communicated. And , to my mind, this was a good place to start.

 

[JackM]

I don't think anyone faults the raising of an issue, but some of us feel that the issue raised here is an over-reaction rather than sensible stewardship. Maybe because you are a new poster, you don't realize that anytime a picture is posted with a fish on the ground, at least one, perhaps well-meaning, perhaps holier-than-thou response follows implying that the act of photographing the fish was an affront to the resource. Speaking for myself, I don't think such reactions are warranted in light of the fact that all of the circumstances surrounding the taking of the photo cannot be derived from the photograph itself. It seems to me to be the better part of discretion to assume that all due care was taken in handling the fish, rather than assuming the opposite.

 

[nativebrownie]

Jack,
I'll repeat my original point then. In a C&R area with the state law posted that "all fish must be returned unharmed," is it a violation of that state code to handle, place, and take a picture of a fish? Is it a violation of the spirit of C&R? Any time out of the water is detrimental to the health of that fish - every second. That trout, within a state mandated C&R area has just finished a race for its life and then it is handled and must be removed from its source of oxygen for many, many seconds? It's amatter of the law and a greater respect.

Maybe "sensible stewardship" involves drawing a line somewhere else when balancing the health of a resource against society's every demand(read whim).

Three years ago, a MD. Park Ranger gave me "hell" in front of my own family for parking out of the pavement and with two wheels on the grass. IMHO, he was not being "holier than thou," he was dead right and I was dead wrong. Within our booming population and the heavy need for outdoor rec, that fine line is really important.

As a "new poster" (but long time reader), I will need to search again, as i have not found a thread that discusses some of what has been discussed with "my overreaction."
I have truly enjoyed this exchange with others who fish the same waters as myself. Some alternatives to consider would be pics while in a net (takes 2 seconds), or while still in the water(the fish is never deprived of any recovery time or oxygen) or go back to the "old days" and just release and go back to your buddies and tell the tale with it twice as big and growing fast.

 

[JackM]

Looking at the pictures, I have no reason to think that the fish were harmed. That is my point. I believe, perhaps wrongly, that your points implied that you could determine from the pictures that there was unnecessary harm to the fish. I think that is a huge assumption that gives little benefit of the doubt to the poster. As easy as it is to suggest that "any time" out of the water is "detrimental to the fish," one could state that catching the fish at all and playing it to the net is detrimental as well. The question is whether any harm caused is critically detrimental to the fish's health and where one draws the line. I see no reason to try to lay shame on an angler who wishes to photograph his catch in or out of the water without knowing with some degree of certainty that the manner of handling the fish actually jeopardized its chance of survival.

So, to answer your question directly, I do not think it violates either the letter or spirit of C & R regulations to remove a trout from the water, lay it on the bank, snap a photo, and return it to the water promptly.