Big Fishing Creek, Clinton Co., 12/27-28/2022

[troutbert]

I fished lower BFC in 2021 last and I actually haven’t gone back despite heading to the narrows multiple times since then. Reason being I could not get away from stocked rainbows sure there were some browns
View attachment 1641228537
but i just kept hitting stocked rainbow after stocked rainbow and I couldn’t get away from them so I didn’t go back. Someone seems to be stocking the ever loving crap out of it at least back then.

Fishing Creek in the Mill Hall and Salona area is one of those stocked Class A sections.

 

[bigjohn358]

Or the learning ability (negative stimulus avoidance) of the trout kicked in.

Or there were some weak year classes passing through the population.

Overharvest can occur in wild brown trout populations, but it is rare. Saw it twice in my career…once in an isolated, stocked, long pool location where “everyone” thought Joe Humphries had caught his record fish and once in a stocked trout stream situation in SE Pa. The population had grown from a class D or C wild brown trout population to a Class A despite stocking, but numbers rose substantially after stocking was stopped, doubling the Class A biomass in short order.

The most naive wild Browns that I have heard of have been those that have been exposed to very little fishing pressure. An example would be from a stream that is recovering from 100 yrs of pollution where a “new” trout population has developed. A temporary overharvest of large fish would not be a big surprise, but as in the case of the Lackawanna, the fish would catch on.

It happened here and I don't need any study or someone's so called expertise to tell me differently. I guess when I hear experts second guess these things and the facts I know is why I often have a very hard time believing a lot of fishery biologists. Tell me what biologist or so called expert has over 1000 days on that body of water? While my brother was in college he fished it 65 straight days! I've even fished the areas that go under ground in the summer just to say I've done it (fish do move in there and often get trapped every year). Heck one fisheries biologist with the PFBC still stocks a portion of Fishing Creek in the Class A non stocked no special regs section at his cabin. I know about the fish kill that effected the area where that Amish farm that sells raw milk and other dairy products down to the Cedar Run bridge because of their poor farming techniques. There is very little that goes on with that stream I do not know about.

 

[Swattie87]

Not be a contrarian, but just reporting facts. I fished it three times last May during Sulphur season, upstream of Mill Hall, but downstream of the Cedar confluence, and caught nothing but obvious wild Browns. It wasn’t lights out, but it fished better than Penns/Little J/Kish the week I was up. And better than the Narrows section further upstream. FWIW.

 

[bigjohn358]

Not be a contrarian, but just reporting facts. I fished it three times last May during Sulphur season, upstream of Mill Hall, but downstream of the Cedar confluence, and caught nothing but obvious wild Browns. It wasn’t lights out, but it fished better than Penns/Little J/Kish the week I was up. And better than the Narrows section further upstream. FWIW.

Yup Fishing Creek in the stocked sections can be hit and miss with the wild browns. When you get a good dry fly hatch (it doesn't happen too often on Fishing Creek) it will draw up the browns. Some days you catch more browns than rainbows even when nymphing but its hit and miss. Most of the time its the rainbows BUT you will be hard pressed to find better looking rainbows than whats in the stocked section of Fishing Creek. Many are from fingerling stockings.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Fishing Creek in the Mill Hall and Salona area is one of those stocked Class A sections.

Oh ok someone must have been talking about somewhere else then when they said stocking was stopped. From a pure fishing perspective if it has class A biomass and the fish are harvestable consumptive size with better tasting pink meat than the white flesh taste like crap rainbows it seems that its quite a waste of money for a cash strapped “resource management” agency to dump those fish in there.

If a fishery exists and people who fish enough times to count on one hand a year can’t catch the fish, thats the publics problem not PFBC’s to pander to them. Game comission should just tie deer to a tree at the edge of a field when pressure makes em go nocturnal during the rutt. If your not going to do something correctly or often enough to get good at it then license payer funds shouldnt be wasted to make an ecosystem meet you at your level as an angler.

 

[troutbert]

Oh ok someone must have been talking about somewhere else then when they said stocking was stopped.

Stocking was ended on all of Fishing Creek, except for that section.

 

[bigjohn358]

Oh ok someone must have been talking about somewhere else then when they said stocking was stopped. From a pure fishing perspective if it has class A biomass and the fish are harvestable consumptive size with better tasting pink meat than the white flesh taste like crap rainbows it seems that its quite a waste of money for a cash strapped “resource management” agency to dump those fish in there.

If a fishery exists and people who fish enough times to count on one hand a year can’t catch the fish, thats the publics problem not PFBC’s to pander to them. Game comission should just tie deer to a tree at the edge of a field when pressure makes em go nocturnal during the rutt. If your not going to do something correctly or often enough to get good at it then license payer funds shouldnt be wasted to make an ecosystem meet you at your level as an angler.

Fishing Creek in Clinton County is stocked from Route 150 in Mill Hall up to where Cedar Run dumps in. From Cedar Run up there is no stocking. From Cedar Run up to the Narrows and above the narrows there are no special regulations but its still all Class A waters. The entire stream is Class A waters from the beginning to the end even in the stocked section. Years ago They used to stock it in Mackeyville but that stopped decades ago.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Stocking was ended on all of Fishing Creek, except for that section.

I have caught stocked fish from the mill hall wall all the way up to past long run. The Brown Trout seemed to be the larger of the fish from the size perspective. It made me wonder from a sporting perspective what was the point of paying to stock that stretch unless someone just wants the novelty of catching “rainbow trout Lite”. The other thing is there are brook trout currently in the fight of their lives in long run against those browns but when someone tells me they catch an 18” brook trout I suspect they are escapes from the cedar run hatchery in mackeyville? Big John with your truly impressive amount of time out on the water in that area, do you know if they are still raising brook trout and allowing a bunch of escapes ? A guide told me he got the biggest brook trout of his life 5 years ago when we were fishing lower BFC and I suspected the amish hatchery.

 

[troutbert]

\

I have caught stocked fish from the mill hall wall all the way up to past long run. The Brown Trout seemed to be the larger of the fish from the size perspective. It made me wonder from a sporting perspective what was the point of paying to stock that stretch unless someone just wants the novelty of catching “rainbow trout Lite”. The other thing is there are brook trout currently in the fight of their lives in long run against those browns but when someone tells me they catch an 18” brook trout I suspect they are escapes from the cedar run hatchery in mackeyville? Big John with your truly impressive amount of time out on the water in that area, do you know if they are still raising brook trout and allowing a bunch of escapes ? A guide told me he got the biggest brook trout of his life 5 years ago when we were fishing lower BFC and I suspected the amish hatchery.

Which hatchery do you think is Amish owned?

Cedar Run is not in Mackeyville.

Any 18 inch brook trout caught around there is surely a hatchery fish.

 

[bigjohn358]

I have caught stocked fish from the mill hall wall all the way up to past long run. The Brown Trout seemed to be the larger of the fish from the size perspective. It made me wonder from a sporting perspective what was the point of paying to stock that stretch unless someone just wants the novelty of catching “rainbow trout Lite”. The other thing is there are brook trout currently in the fight of their lives in long run against those browns but when someone tells me they catch an 18” brook trout I suspect they are escapes from the cedar run hatchery in mackeyville? Big John with your truly impressive amount of time out on the water in that area, do you know if they are still raising brook trout and allowing a bunch of escapes ? A guide told me he got the biggest brook trout of his life 5 years ago when we were fishing lower BFC and I suspected the amish hatchery.

There is a hatchery owner up Cedar Run who has several on that stream and a hatchery up Long Run. As far as fish making it down from those hatcheries into Fishing Creek its very very slim but not impossible. The PFBC has stocked brook trout in Fishing Creek in Mill Hall several times. They do not report it. Often it is end of the stocking season cleaning out raceways and its one of the only stocked stream capable of holding them. Always seems to be brook trout when they do this. The reason Fishing Creek through Mill Hall is stocked is because of public outcry and the traditional kill kill mentality of so many outdoorsmen. There are a ton of meat hunters and it always amazes me when I do catch nice browns considering the amount of pressure they face. Its not just fishing pressure from humans either. Seems like predators are coming back in a huge way. Lots of mergansers, eagles, osprey, herons, mink, and even some otters. There weren't half the predators on that stream 15-20 years ago. If managed right though I feel the lower end of Fishing Creek could be better than Penns as far as size wise of fish but sadly that will never happen.

 

[bigjohn358]

\

Which hatchery do you think is Amish owned?

Yeah, none are owned by Amish that I know of. I know the Cedar Run hatchery owner...the Long Run hatchery I don't know a ton about. Someone 20 or 25 years ago broke the hatchery releasing thousands of fish into Long Run. I was probably 16-17 at the time and had a blast catching fish despite the sad event. Took them several days to get permission to go in and net out the fish in the one hole they all ended up in. They never really got passed the one bridge in town in Salona which makes me doubt any fish that would escape from there would really end up in Fishing Creek.

 

[wildtrout2]

Big John with your truly impressive amount of time out on the water in that area, do you know if they are still raising brook trout and allowing a bunch of escapes ?

bigjohn358 is the BFC whisperer. If I ever want/need to know anything about BFC, he's the guy I would ask.

 

[Fish Sticks]

There is a hatchery owner up Cedar Run who has several on that stream and a hatchery up Long Run. As far as fish making it down from those hatcheries into Fishing Creek its very very slim but not impossible. The PFBC has stocked brook trout in Fishing Creek in Mill Hall several times. They do not report it. Often it is end of the stocking season cleaning out raceways and its one of the only stocked stream capable of holding them. Always seems to be brook trout when they do this. The reason Fishing Creek through Mill Hall is stocked is because of public outcry and the traditional kill kill mentality of so many outdoorsmen. There are a ton of meat hunters and it always amazes me when I do catch nice browns considering the amount of pressure they face. Its not just fishing pressure from humans either. Seems like predators are coming back in a huge way. Lots of mergansers, eagles, osprey, herons, mink, and even some otters. There weren't half the predators on that stream 15-20 years ago. If managed right though I feel the lower end of Fishing Creek could be better than Penns as far as size wise of fish but sadly that will never happen.

Thanks for the insight. To your point about the potential of BFC and knowing what happened to Big Springs brook trout when that hatchery came out, how many stem to stern in BFC watershed.

Known good populations of native brook trout throughout entire watershed albeit fragmented. Spring, bear, cherry, long, little fishing creek, the one on Big johns property, narrows main stem, and many more I cannot name upstream of tylersville/loganton. How many hatcheries are rhese fish dealing with and whats the potential of they were not there?


PFBC tylersville discharging that white surface scum from the outflow

Fish and Wild life lamar

Multiple on cedar

Long run

Did I miss any?

 

[bigjohn358]

Thanks for the insight. To your point about the potential of BFC and knowing what happened to Big Springs brook trout when that hatchery came out, how many stem to stern in BFC watershed.

Known good populations of native brook trout throughout entire watershed albeit fragmented. Spring, bear, cherry, long, little fishing creek, the one on Big johns property, narrows main stem, and many more I cannot name upstream of tylersville/loganton. How many hatcheries are rhese fish dealing with and whats the potential of they were not there?


PFBC tylersville discharging that white surface scum from the outflow

Fish and Wild life lamar

Multiple on cedar

Long run
E
Did I miss any?

As far as discharges from the hatcheries Tylersville is NOTHING like it was in the 90s. Its extremely cleaned up. Fish used to escape all the time from Tylersville but that's a rare thing anymore. The Cedar Run hatcheries as well are VERY clean! I've never seen any signs of discharge from any of those hatcheries and I do fish Cedar Run on occasion and regularly see those hatcheries. I believe there are 3 hatcheries on Cedar, 1 on Long Run and then the ones in Lamar and Tylersville.

Brook trout on Fishing Creek haven't had a large population during my life. I occasionally catch one in the non stocked section from below the Narrows down to Cedar Run. Its a very rare occurrence. This does give the opportunity for the extremely rare tiger trout which I have caught several wild ones or ones I believe to be wild. The only section of Fishing Creek that has a good population of brook trout is the narrows. You go above the narrows and you will still see browns dominate the fishery. Feeder streams still have the small brooks but in Fishing Creek it'll be browns.

 

[Fish Sticks]

As far as discharges from the hatcheries Tylersville is NOTHING like it was in the 90s. Its extremely cleaned up. Fish used to escape all the time from Tylersville but that's a rare thing anymore. The Cedar Run hatcheries as well are VERY clean! I've never seen any signs of discharge from any of those hatcheries and I do fish Cedar Run on occasion and regularly see those hatcheries. I believe there are 3 hatcheries on Cedar, 1 on Long Run and then the ones in Lamar and Tylersville.

Brook trout on Fishing Creek haven't had a large population during my life. I occasionally catch one in the non stocked section from below the Narrows down to Cedar Run. Its a very rare occurrence. This does give the opportunity for the extremely rare tiger trout which I have caught several wild ones or ones I believe to be wild. The only section of Fishing Creek that has a good population of brook trout is the narrows. You go above the narrows and you will still see browns dominate the fishery. Feeder streams still have the small brooks but in Fishing Creek it'll be browns.

Id like to explore the headwaters more above tylersville and up to the game lands. I’ve never seen it

 

[troutbert]

Known good populations of native brook trout throughout entire watershed albeit fragmented. Spring, bear, cherry, long, little fishing creek, the one on Big johns property, narrows main stem, and many more I cannot name upstream of tylersville/loganton.

What does "Spring" refer to?

Little Fishing Creek adds no brookie influence to Fishing Creek. The brookie population in Little Fishing Creek is many miles above the mouth. There are zero brookies in the lower mileage.

 

[bigjohn358]

What does "Spring" refer to?

Little Fishing Creek adds no brookie influence to Fishing Creek. The brookie population in Little Fishing Creek is many miles above the mouth. There are zero brookies in the lower mileage.

Believe it or not way back in the day Little Fishing Creek was known for catching eels. They would take sticks hung across the creek and hang hooks off of them to catch the eels. It was also known for suckers. At one time a lot of people in the area used to can suckers.

 

[bigjohn358]

Its funny...a lot of my dad's side of the family is from the Hublersburg area on Little Fishing Creek and the family reunions are held at Long Run park. My mom's side of the family was from Loganton where Fishing Creek originates. I grew up in Flemington where I was able to ride my bike down to where Fishing Creek dumps into Bald Eagle. I got this creek covered! lol

 

[TimMurphy]

As far as discharges from the hatcheries Tylersville is NOTHING like it was in the 90s. Its extremely cleaned up. Fish used to escape all the time from Tylersville but that's a rare thing anymore. The Cedar Run hatcheries as well are VERY clean! I've never seen any signs of discharge from any of those hatcheries and I do fish Cedar Run on occasion and regularly see those hatcheries. I believe there are 3 hatcheries on Cedar, 1 on Long Run and then the ones in Lamar and Tylersville.

Brook trout on Fishing Creek haven't had a large population during my life. I occasionally catch one in the non stocked section from below the Narrows down to Cedar Run. Its a very rare occurrence. This does give the opportunity for the extremely rare tiger trout which I have caught several wild ones or ones I believe to be wild. The only section of Fishing Creek that has a good population of brook trout is the narrows. You go above the narrows and you will still see browns dominate the fishery. Feeder streams still have the small brooks but in Fishing Creek it'll be browns.

Dear John,

I can tell you when I fished Big Fishing Creek back in the late 1980's it was loaded with wild brook trout all the way down to the No Sunday Fishing cabin section. I caught many brookies that were 12 inches plus, and a couple that were 15 inches. I mostly fished the stream from the bridge below the hatchery to the iron walking bridge about 1/2 mile or so from the bridge below the Tylersville hatchery. It was my favorite stream.

Back then, during a hatch you could stand on the pull off just above the cabins and watch 30 to 50 brookies rising in that pool. Every once in a while, there would be a big splash and there would be one less rising brookie.

The last time I really fished it hard was a week in October 1994. There were still wild brookies but they were a lot more sparse then.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[bigjohn358]

Dear John,

I can tell you when I fished Big Fishing Creek back in the late 1980's it was loaded with wild brook trout all the way down to the No Sunday Fishing cabin section. I caught many brookies that were 12 inches plus, and a couple that were 15 inches. I mostly fished the stream from the bridge below the hatchery to the iron walking bridge about 1/2 mile or so from the bridge below the Tylersville hatchery. It was my favorite stream.

Back then, during a hatch you could stand on the pull off just above the cabins and watch 30 to 50 brookies rising in that pool. Every once in a while, there would be a big splash and there would be one less rising brookie.

The last time I really fished it hard was a week in October 1994. There were still wild brookies but they were a lot more sparse then.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

You stopped fishing it around the time I started getting serious. I still say if you want a big native brook trout thats the area to go. That catch and release and the trophy trout area still has brook trout in numbers that they are not a rare catch. I hit a really good BWO hatch about 20 years ago catching about 15 brooks several in the 12-15" range. I ran into George Daniels that day and he was working on some streamer presentations.