A podcast dedicated to fisheries management in Pennsylvania

[Captain Wader Farts]

I was very happy to see so many members of PA fly fish commenting and e-mailing our governor about stocking reform on freeman run.

On a related topic a former “sorely missed” board member just started a podcast dedicated to fisheries management in Pennsylvania and stocking reform.

 

[dudemanspecial]

The only former board member who I want to hear on a podcast is maxima12.

 

[DaveKile]

I was very happy to see so many members of PA fly fish commenting and e-mailing our governor about stocking reform on freeman run.

On a related topic a former “sorely missed” board member just started a podcast dedicated to fisheries management in Pennsylvania and stocking reform.

That ex-member is not a fit here on Paflyfish.

 

[Captain Wader Farts]

That ex-member is not a fit here on Paflyfish.

Hey Dave I noticed you moderated the iTunes link out of original post, apologies as I did not mean to offend. I was being sarcastic with the “sorely missed.” Just genuinely interested in whats going on in stocking reform out there post the Freeman debacle.


I took notice of the poll you did and all the people that wrote shapiro. That was great. Will you spill the tea on if PAFF has anything else planned to mobilize its large member base to get stocking reformed? Keep up the good work, Dave.

 

[DaveKile]

Hey Dave I noticed you moderated the iTunes link out of original post, apologies as I did not mean to offend. I was being sarcastic with the “sorely missed.” Just genuinely interested in whats going on in stocking reform out there post the Freeman debacle.


I took notice of the poll you did and all the people that wrote shapiro. That was great. Will you spill the tea on if PAFF has anything else planned to mobilize its large member base to get stocking reformed? Keep up the good work, Dave.

You didn’t offend me—thanks for reaching out. No need to apologize. I understand he has some fans, but I’m not one of them. Some people just aren’t a good fit for this site; their style is often better suited elsewhere. I’ve been herding cats here for 30 years, and I just don’t need any that bite.

I was really hoping we’d be able to stop Freeman and was shocked that we didn’t. It felt like, as they say in the movies, the fix was in. There was an overwhelming number of people against this, and yet it still passed. I thought that if we stopped this, we could send a second message about stopping Class A’s altogether—but now we’re back to square one.

I need to reach out to a few groups around the state to see if they have any plans. I definitely felt a bit defeated, but I’m not giving up.

Any thoughts?

 

[Nocktavius]

Too many truck chasers in this state to change that mindset sadly. He who shall not be named might not have been a good fit for this site, but he’s definitely got the right perspective on all that PFBC, TU, and the other grifters are doing wrong right now.

Sometimes extremism puts asses in the seats

 

[The Rodfather]

Need to figure out how to get new folks that are class A friendly on the commission.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Need to figure out how to get new folks that are class A friendly on the commission.

Exactly. Three commission positions open now and it would be nice if they proved to be independent thinkers who really did believe in "Resource First". I actually considered throwing my hat in the ring for the District 3 spot for about 5 minutes, but really don't believe I would be considered, not to mention that I'm not sure I'd enjoy the thankless (and probably occasionally maddening) volunteer position.

 

[Captain Wader Farts]

You didn’t offend me—thanks for reaching out. No need to apologize. I understand he has some fans, but I’m not one of them. Some people just aren’t a good fit for this site; their style is often better suited elsewhere. I’ve been herding cats here for 30 years, and I just don’t need any that bite.

I was really hoping we’d be able to stop Freeman and was shocked that we didn’t. It felt like, as they say in the movies, the fix was in. There was an overwhelming number of people against this, and yet it still passed. I thought that if we stopped this, we could send a second message about stopping Class A’s altogether—but now we’re back to square one.

I need to reach out to a few groups around the state to see if they have any plans. I definitely felt a bit defeated, but I’m not giving up.

Any thoughts?

I don’t think PFBC can be swayed with special interests calling the shots behind the scenes. Freeman Run proved that in my mind. My gut tells me until the media in PA holds the legislators and governor accountable for all the tax money spent on stocking that no amount of e-mails will change stocking practices. Easy to ignore our e-mails but harder to ignore media showing everyone you bailed out stocking with tax dollars close to elections. My thought would be there is still value in the PAFF poll and it could be taken to the media along with PFBC’s questionable finacial practices.

 

[nd1001]

I don’t think PFBC can be swayed with special interests calling the shots behind the scenes. Freeman Run proved that in my mind. My gut tells me until the media in PA holds the legislators and governor accountable for all the tax money spent on stocking that no amount of e-mails will change stocking practices. Easy to ignore our e-mails but harder to ignore media showing everyone you bailed out stocking with tax dollars close to elections. My thought would be there is still value in the PAFF poll and it could be taken to the media along with PFBC’s questionable finacial practices.

Great point. I appreciated the podcast you linked bringing up this subject.

Trout anglers are a small proportion of PA constituents. Highlighting fiscal irresponsibility may get a broader scope of people to care about the issue.

 

[Swattie87]

Sometimes extremism puts asses in the seats

Maybe. But it rarely constructively and objectively accomplishes much. That largely is my issue with taking an extremist approach on this kind of stuff. It doesn’t work.

The whole Freeman Run deal is a bellwether for what what wild (and even more so native) Trout in PA are up against. And Freeman Run is mostly wild Brown Trout, not Brook Trout. You have overwhelming objective support against its stocking (hence not an extremist position to take) and it’s still going to be stocked anyway. It’s sad, and clearly wrong from a fisheries management standpoint. But we need to get some small victories under our belt before swinging for the fences. Freeman Run, unfortunately, is another loss.

 

[The Rodfather]

Its just sad to see the commission flat ignore the overwhelming pushback on the issue.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Maybe. But it rarely constructively and objectively accomplishes much. That largely is my issue with taking an extremist approach on this kind of stuff. It doesn’t work.

The whole Freeman Run deal is a bellwether for what what wild (and even more so native) Trout in PA are up against. And Freeman Run is mostly wild Brown Trout, not Brook Trout. You have overwhelming objective support against its stocking (hence not an extremist position to take) and it’s still going to be stocked anyway. It’s sad, and clearly wrong from a fisheries management standpoint. But we need to get some small victories under our belt before swinging for the fences. Freeman Run, unfortunately, is another loss.

Don't believe for even a second that this isn't a slippery slope issue or that Freeman Run stands alone with no bearing on anything else. I really don't wish to invest/volunteer a ton of time to become a commissioner (even if I thought it were possible), but I really DO wish to see a strong advocate for wild trout on the board and hope that one of, if not all three of these new commissioners might not be stronger advocates for Class A and wild repro streams.

 

[Swattie87]

Don't believe for even a second that this isn't a slippery slope issue or that Freeman Run stands alone with no bearing on anything else. I really don't wish to invest/volunteer a ton of time to become a commissioner (even if I thought it were possible), but I really DO wish to see a strong advocate for wild trout on the board and hope that one of, if not all three of these new commissioners might not be stronger advocates for Class A and wild repro streams.

Agree.

But if you can’t notch a W on a situation like Freeman Run, with overwhelming support in favor of not stocking, it kinda illustrates the point. The accepted norm still to this day in PA, is that stocking is good. Admittedly, it’s a high hurdle to overcome. Freeman Run took the wind out of my sails too, but agree, have to be ready to make the argument again next time, whenever/wherever that is.

I’d almost want to see the commissioners elected to a pre-defined term, by vote of license holders. And only license holders. Accountability to actual license holders.

 

[The Rodfather]

I agree its a high hurdle. And the Freeman run loss is the tip of the iceberg.

With what we know of the dirty business that's going on with the board, I believe that getting the local and state media to cover some of the tax dollars issues, would be an easier path to put pressure on them.

Particularly now with the massive budgeting issues, if there could be a spotlight on the misappropriation of much needed tax dollars to support this unnecessary stocking over top of the state fish.

Thats an easier sell to the media and the public than getting into the nitty gritty of the negative impacts on biodiversity of stocking certain creeks and tbe different classifications.

Obviously we'd still keep doing what we are doing for pushback and making the voices heard, id just like to try to get the media and some political podcasters/talking heads on the microphone too.

 

[salvelinus]

If you think you could do the job, go for it. A dozen or so years ago I was contacted by the office of my state representative about considering being a commissioner. All because of numerous correspondence to his office about my concerns about fisheries management or lack thereof. Unfortunately at my station in life it was not something I could consider. So go for it!

 

[The Rodfather]

Yeah. We need more folks that are friendly to the cause to step up and join the commission.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I would be more positive. Not for the ultimate outcome, but the effort. It mobilized people AND it raised the issue across the state. Here in central PA, it awakened us and we know to remain vigilant- having regulations isn't forever and if it can happen there, it can here. I don't know the history, but I wonder if they felt it could be sneaked past people. They know it won't be an easy go the next time and they might be hesitant to try elsewhere.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Having had some experience with conservation organizations and government agencies that have boards of commissioners, it's pretty obvious to me that it's a thankless job and that said commissioners are frequently going to be on someone's crap list for decisions that they've made. My hope is that whomever the new commissioners are will be open-minded and independent people who make decisions based on sound principles, either biological (doing what's best for the resource no matter what), social principles (doing what the stakeholders want) or some combination of the two and that they NEVER make decisions because they've been bought or because they have some vested interest in the outcome.

For what it's worth, I did submit my name for the district 3 vacancy, and I have a first-round interview scheduled. I'll do my best in the interview process and allow the advisory council to make recommendations and for the appointment process to play out. If I'm selected and accept the appointment, I'll do my best to represent the resource first and foremost and the anglers and citizens as well. I have no idea if my candidacy will be taken seriously or not or how I'll do in the interview process (although I do have a good bit of experience, have fair communication skills and think that I'm pursuing it for the right reasons, so have no reason to be nervous about the process).

 

[Gibbon]

Good luck in the interview process. We can definitely use more resource first individuals on the board.