Pafbc and Pagc to stop deputy wardens program

joebamboo said:
It makes perfect sense to me. It works well in all states that have one agency to enforce both hunting and fishing regulations.
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Dear Joe,

In a lot of those states with combined agencies the fish and game officers are fully commissioned police officers and can enforce all State laws when criminal activity or even traffic violations are encountered during normal outdoor patrols. Close to us, NY and MD officers are full on police. If you watch Lonestar Law on TV, the TX officers are full on State Troopers.

That would require additional training and certifications.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
Well,
TimMurphy said:
Dear Joe,

In a lot of those states with combined agencies the fish and game officers are fully commissioned police officers and can enforce all State laws when criminal activity or even traffic violations are encountered during normal outdoor patrols. Close to us, NY and MD officers are full on police. If you watch Lonestar Law on TV, the TX officers are full on State Troopers.

That would require additional training and certifications.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
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Take a look at:

Title 30​
CHAPTER 9​
ENFORCEMENT​
Subchapter​
A. General Provisions​
§ 901. Powers and duties of waterways conservation officers and deputies.​
​
(a) Waterways conservation officers.--Every waterways conservation officer shall have the power and duty to:​
​
(1) Enforce all laws of this Commonwealth relating to fish and watercraft and arrest with or without warrant any person violating this title.​
​
AND​
​
(12) When in the performance of their duties, pursue, apprehend or arrest any individual suspected of violating any provision of Title 18 (relating to crimes and offenses) or any other offense classified as a misdemeanor or felony. They shall also have the power to serve and execute warrants issued by the proper authorities for offenses referred to in this paragraph and to serve subpoenas issued for examination. All power as provided for in this paragraph will be limited by such administrative procedure as the executive director, with the approval of the commission, shall prescribe.​
​

I'm not an attorney or even a 100% law abiding citizen (except when it comes to "fish laws" 😉), but I have always treated PFBC WCO's, PGC Wardens, DCNR Rangers and even PA County Park Rangers as full fledged LEO's which means I show them the same level of respect and refrain from doing OTHER stupid $#!+ when I am in their presence.

If I am misinterpreting their authority, so be it. All I know is, I have never had a bad experience with any of them in my entire life so I'll stick with what works for me.

In regards to additional training and certifications; based on ALL of Title 30, Chapter 9; I have to believe it wouldn't be that much IF any, but I don't know for sure.
 
TimMurphy said:
Dear Joe,

In a lot of those states with combined agencies the fish and game officers are fully commissioned police officers and can enforce all State laws when criminal activity or even traffic violations are encountered during normal outdoor patrols. Close to us, NY and MD officers are full on police. If you watch Lonestar Law on TV, the TX officers are full on State Troopers.

That would require additional training and certifications.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
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That would require additional training and certifications. And that would be a problem why?
 
Dear Bamboozle,

Hey, I'm kind of like you and try to stay in my lane and not arouse suspicion or knowingly violate any laws. I've never had any bad dealings with the "fish fuzz," and will keep things that way. 😉

I was merely pointing out that in Texas for example, the Conservation Officer's trucks are marked as State Police vehicles, and they have full authority.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 😉
 
joebamboo said:
That would require additional training and certifications. And that would be a problem why?
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Dear joebamboo,

Nothing, if you are willing to personally pay for it. 😉

Otherwise, it's just an additional expense added to agencies that are stressed by needing to be funded through license sales, or in the case of the Game Commission timber and mineral leases. When they come under the General Assembly the money will not come as easily, and may not come at all given the dysfunctional, provincial nature of PA governance.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
TimMurphy said:
Dear Bamboozle,

Hey, I'm kind of like you and try to stay in my lane and not arouse suspicion or knowingly violate any laws. I've never had any bad dealings with the "fish fuzz," and will keep things that way. 😉

I was merely pointing out that in Texas for example, the Conservation Officer's trucks are marked as State Police vehicles, and they have full authority.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 😉
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I was particularly chummy with the WCO for the county where I used to live who now happens to be the Director for the PFBC Bureau of Law Enforcement.

I enlisted his help on a few occasions and I used to bump into him often at a few of my haunts and we'd shoot the $#!+ on the water or by my car about all sorts of stuff. Well, one day I was fishing the Saucon with a buddy, we were done and stashing our gear when he pulls up, recognizes me and hops out of his patrol car to chat.

Well I ALWAYS have beer in a cooler in my car when I fish and I was enjoying one at the time, so seeing the WCO driving up, I stashed it discretely back into my cooler before he recognizes me and it stays there the whole time we were talking which was AT LEAST 30 minutes.

In the meantime, my buddy keeps drinking his beer like he's sittin' at someone's backyard BBQ while I am cringing because he isn't getting the fact that he is drinking a beer by a motor vehicle in front of what I consider an on-duty LEO.

We parted ways and nothing was said , but after the WCO left I admonished my friend and explained to him where I was coming from and it never happened again, at least when I was with him...
 
Bamboozle said:
In the meantime, my buddy keeps drinking his beer like he's sittin' at someone's backyard BBQ while I am cringing because he isn't getting the fact that he is drinking a beer by a motor vehicle in front of what I consider an on-duty LEO.

We parted ways and nothing was said , but after the WCO left I admonished my friend and explained to him where I was coming from and it never happened again, at least when I was with him...
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You can dress them up... 😉
 
Bamboozle said:
I was particularly chummy with the WCO for the county where I used to live who now happens to be the Director for the PFBC Bureau of Law Enforcement.

I enlisted his help on a few occasions and I used to bump into him often at a few of my haunts and we'd shoot the $#!+ on the water or by my car about all sorts of stuff. Well, one day I was fishing the Saucon with a buddy, we were done and stashing our gear when he pulls up, recognizes me and hops out of his patrol car to chat.

Well I ALWAYS have beer in a cooler in my car when I fish and I was enjoying one at the time, so seeing the WCO driving up, I stashed it discretely back into my cooler before he recognizes me and it stays there the whole time we were talking which was AT LEAST 30 minutes.

In the meantime, my buddy keeps drinking his beer like he's sittin' at someone's backyard BBQ while I am cringing because he isn't getting the fact that he is drinking a beer by a motor vehicle in front of what I consider an on-duty LEO.

We parted ways and nothing was said , but after the WCO left I admonished my friend and explained to him where I was coming from and it never happened again, at least when I was with him...
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Dear Bamboozle,

Your story reminds me when my brother Terry and I along with our Delco buddies Richie and Dave the P++++k went to a warm water fly fishing demo hosted by Steve Sywensky of Fly Fisher's Paradise at Colyer Lake one summer evening circa 1992 or so.

We watched the demo and fished a bit then hung out with Steve at his car near the boat launch just BS'ing and drinking beer. The Fish Commission officer for Centre County showed up and, in a nano-second there were 5 tall boy PBR's in various states of fullness sitting right next to Steve who was sitting in his Chysler/Dodge mini-van.

The fish cop took one look at us, and Steve who he knew well and said, "This ain't a State Park boys. Alcohol is 100% legal on PFBC property, but drunkenness isn't, so just be cool."

Since then and until this day I stick to PFBC Commission property for my public drinking while fishing. 😉

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
TimMurphy said:
Dear Bamboozle,

Your story reminds me when my brother Terry and I along with our Delco buddies Richie and Dave the P++++k went to a warm water fly fishing demo hosted by Steve Sywensky of Fly Fisher's Paradise at Colyer Lake one summer evening circa 1992 or so.

We watched the demo and fished a bit then hung out with Steve at his car near the boat launch just BS'ing and drinking beer. The Fish Commission officer for Centre County showed up and, in a nano-second there were 5 tall boy PBR's in various states of fullness sitting right next to Steve who was sitting in his Chysler/Dodge mini-van.

The fish cop took one look at us, and Steve who he knew well and said, "This ain't a State Park boys. Alcohol is 100% legal on PFBC property, but drunkenness isn't, so just be cool."

Since then and until this day I stick to PFBC Commission property for my public drinking while fishing. 😉

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
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That's like me when I fish Lyman Run...

I make sure I do all of my out in the open drinking up the road in the Susquehannock State Forest, OUT of Lyman Run State Park.

I will admit fishing the lake is more challenging, but it can be done because I have made clandestine alcohol consumption in PA State Parks into something of an art form... 😉
 
I can't cite any PA Code to support the assertion, but I'm pretty sure the enforcement overlap between PA Fish or Game LEO's and say, State Troopers has existed for a good many years and that technically, a state trooper for could cite you keeping a 6" brook trout and PFBC WCO could give you ticket for going 32 in a 25 mph zone. I think at least part of original intent here was to create a reservoir of enforcement officers that could be tapped in crisis situations where additional help was needed.

I spent a lot of years absolutely opposed to a PFBC/PGC merger because of the potential impacts on policy from having the new agency funded out of the General Fund. I know of no place where fish and game laws are more politicized than in rural Pennsylvania. This could be very bad for wild trout management here in PA. I've mellowed a little bit on this now and think a merger could be OK if funding is kept away from the General Fund and the legislature.

It's still a spooky thought to be in many ways, however. I had a good friend who served as a Game Commissioner for a few years. He resigned because there were times he feared for his life when he would go to public meetings and there were guys there who were packing at the same time they were ranting about how proposed PGC deer hunting regulations were a backdoor attack on their 2nd Amendment Rights. Short of a hypo loaded with major tranquilizers, I have no idea how you deal with people like that...
 
RLeep2 said:
I can't cite any PA Code to support the assertion, but I'm pretty sure the enforcement overlap between PA Fish or Game LEO's and say, State Troopers has existed for a good many years and that technically, a state trooper for could cite you keeping a 6" brook trout and PFBC WCO could give you ticket for going 32 in a 25 mph zone. I think at least part of original intent here was to create a reservoir of enforcement officers that could be tapped in crisis situations where additional help was needed.

I spent a lot of years absolutely opposed to a PFBC/PGC merger because of the potential impacts on policy from having the new agency funded out of the General Fund. I know of no place where fish and game laws are more politicized than in rural Pennsylvania. This could be very bad for wild trout management here in PA. I've mellowed a little bit on this now and think a merger could be OK if funding is kept away from the General Fund and the legislature.

It's still a spooky thought to be in many ways, however. I had a good friend who served as a Game Commissioner for a few years. He resigned because there were times he feared for his life when he would go to public meetings and there were guys there who were packing at the same time they were ranting about how proposed PGC deer hunting regulations were a backdoor attack on their 2nd Amendment Rights. Short of a hypo loaded with major tranquilizers, I have no idea how you deal with people like that...
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Dear RLeep2,

Your statement that you know of no place where fish and game laws are more politicized than in PA has been my point all along. If the General Assembly is running the show rules and laws will be bent to accommodate the whims of local constituents. They are now, but it will only get worse!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
An individual was keeping an over the limit number of trout. A state trooper arrived and confronted the individual who just happened to be the troopers father. The trooper cited his father for the violation. So yes, Troopers can and occassionally do enforce the fishing regs. Only when dispatched I'm sure!
 
Roofin' Trouter said:
Or DCNR for that matter. How does their budget look? Can't see them bringing in much revenue selling firewood permits and campsites. Timber leases and mineral extraction but wells getting capped and some mills closed or downsized within the last 18 months.
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PFBC and PGC are independent state agencies while DCNR is not. If there is a merger in the future, I sure as heck don’t want PFBC and PGC under the DCNR umbrella.
 
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