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troutbert
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Flyfishing only means just that. Center-pinning is not flyfishing, it's another category of tackle.
Many of the flyfishing only areas are on private land. The landowners agreed to allow public fishing access to their property. The PFBC agreed to regulate the stretch under FLYFISHING ONLY regulations.
To allow center-pinning in these areas is a violation of the agreement with the landowner.
Great care should always be taken to be respectful of landowners who are generously allowing public fishing access!
Many of the flyfishing only areas are on private land. The landowners agreed to allow public fishing access to their property. The PFBC agreed to regulate the stretch under FLYFISHING ONLY regulations.
To allow center-pinning in these areas is a violation of the agreement with the landowner.
Great care should always be taken to be respectful of landowners who are generously allowing public fishing access!
gulfgreyhound
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I have a Monic Fly Line,clear 5wt. I AM NOT A CENTER PINNER.
SOB"s walked up on me in Erie and cast across my line. If I was only
20 years younger. GG
SOB"s walked up on me in Erie and cast across my line. If I was only
20 years younger. GG
Chaz
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Center Pinning is not fly fishing. As far as I know you could always buy a clear fly line to fish with. I had one once, it worked no better than a colored line and cast poorly. I don't remember why I even bought the thing.
Lee Wulff fished with mono on a fly set-up for salmon.
Lee Wulff fished with mono on a fly set-up for salmon.
brookieaddict
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GG there are village idots everywhere. they think the stream belongs to them, and we are the snobs.
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Mike
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Just an interjection, as I am fascinated by the general discussion:
Many if not most landowners on FFO streams would be hard-pressed to recognize the difference between fly fishing and center-pinning. They have various concerns, but the most frequently mentioned are litter and privacy, and if center pinning did not generate any greater amounts of litter than fly fishing or significantly more foot traffic I doubt that the landowners would be interested. I should also note for the board's general info that they don't particularly like early morning slamming car doors and, I assume, vehicles with locking systems that chirp whenever the key fob is activated.
Carry on.
Many if not most landowners on FFO streams would be hard-pressed to recognize the difference between fly fishing and center-pinning. They have various concerns, but the most frequently mentioned are litter and privacy, and if center pinning did not generate any greater amounts of litter than fly fishing or significantly more foot traffic I doubt that the landowners would be interested. I should also note for the board's general info that they don't particularly like early morning slamming car doors and, I assume, vehicles with locking systems that chirp whenever the key fob is activated.
Carry on.
C
CRB
Well-known member
" I should also note for the board's general info that they don't particularly like early morning slamming car doors and, I assume, vehicles with locking systems that chirp whenever the key fob is activated. "
Worked with the psa to get fishing hours changed on the L Erie tribs because of that. Commission did not act and some access was lost because of that. I still do not understand the mentality of fisherman getting on a stream before daylight on open private property on the Lake Erie trbs.
Worked with the psa to get fishing hours changed on the L Erie tribs because of that. Commission did not act and some access was lost because of that. I still do not understand the mentality of fisherman getting on a stream before daylight on open private property on the Lake Erie trbs.
salvelinusfontinalis
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What are the concerns of landowners on DHALO streams?
Oh that's right, likely the same as those in FFO areas. So generate more traffic and litter? Congrats you win the internet again.
As far as FFO areas and centerpinning.....
We could allow spear fishing too. Not many people do it(so less foot traffic), no reason to show up early(you don't need to beat anglers, you can stab a spooked fish), no bait containers or litter ( they are using a spear) and......
SPEAR FISHING is also NOT FLY-FISHING just like CENTER PINNING is NOT FLY FISHING.
Is it that hard to understand?
Oh that's right, likely the same as those in FFO areas. So generate more traffic and litter? Congrats you win the internet again.
As far as FFO areas and centerpinning.....
We could allow spear fishing too. Not many people do it(so less foot traffic), no reason to show up early(you don't need to beat anglers, you can stab a spooked fish), no bait containers or litter ( they are using a spear) and......
SPEAR FISHING is also NOT FLY-FISHING just like CENTER PINNING is NOT FLY FISHING.
Is it that hard to understand?
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ColdBore
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Even in tight line/euro nymphing? I see guys that may as well not even bother having actual fly line on their reel, as the end of the leader is still wrapped on the reel, or at least in the guides, not past the rod's end. They are using split shot and gravity as their weight to move the fly, and simply hanging it straight down from the rod tip. They simply pick the rod tip up, move it back upstream, and lower it straight back down. Is that still "using the weight of the fly line to cast"?
And you can do the above with no fly line attached to your leader.
But one method is despised, while the other is looked upon as an honorable and true way to "fly fish".
Curious group with strange justifications, flyfishermen.....
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ColdBore
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I think you've lost the argument when you're reduced to that kind of far-out grasping.
salvelinusfontinalis
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I didn't realize I was trying to an argument that can't be won.
The_Sasquatch
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Yeah what's the argument? That pinning is essentially fly fishing? Anyone trying to argue for that has lost before they typed a single word.
salvelinusfontinalis
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Exactly andy
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shortrod2
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Yes of course, for most flyfishing.
I was talking about czech nymphing, the casts are short the weight of the couple of inches of fly line beyond the top guide is not the weight that is being thrown.
Chaz
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In some places it's not considered fly- fishing if there is weight on the leader or the fly is 'weighted.' Just saying. In ME you cannot use weighted flies or a split shot on the line in FFO Sections, may be true elsewhere too.
pcray1231
Well-known member
My view:
Pinning is NOT fly fishing. The definition of fly fishing is using the weight of the line to cast, rather than the weight of the lure. So as long as you call it FFO, I'd be against it.
That said, from a conservation standpoint, I'd also be just fine with turning all FFO areas into ALO. And pinning and spinning gear would be allowed so long as they use artificials.
In other words, I think most special regs should be based on conservation rather than attitude. The goal is that a fish survives getting caught, so that it can be caught again. And I don't really think the rod, reel, and line have much to do with fish survival %. Whether or not the angler harvests the fish, and the offering at the end of the line, both do have a notable effect.
The downfall of pinning is that many take more space than anglers of other types. Hence, they can be particularly troublesome in other ways, namely, under very crowded conditions. If you wanted to create special regs intended for a very different goal, then I could understand "no pinners". It would be implemented on very crowded streams (or even at certain dates), and the goal would be to allow more fishermen to fish smaller areas with less trouble between them. As a good example, the mouth of Walnut Creek in Erie would be a prime place for a "no pinner" rule basically all fall. Opening day on urban streams as well.
Other than that, live and let live.
That bothers me a bit. Especially the litter part. Whether or not an angler litters has everything to do with their behavior, and nothing at all to do with their choice of tackle. There may be a correlation, but not causation, they aren't really related. Many spin/bait guys don't litter, and many fly fishermen do.
As for foot traffic, aside from the first few weeks of the season, I'd guess that any special regulation increases it rather than decreases it.
Pinning is NOT fly fishing. The definition of fly fishing is using the weight of the line to cast, rather than the weight of the lure. So as long as you call it FFO, I'd be against it.
That said, from a conservation standpoint, I'd also be just fine with turning all FFO areas into ALO. And pinning and spinning gear would be allowed so long as they use artificials.
In other words, I think most special regs should be based on conservation rather than attitude. The goal is that a fish survives getting caught, so that it can be caught again. And I don't really think the rod, reel, and line have much to do with fish survival %. Whether or not the angler harvests the fish, and the offering at the end of the line, both do have a notable effect.
The downfall of pinning is that many take more space than anglers of other types. Hence, they can be particularly troublesome in other ways, namely, under very crowded conditions. If you wanted to create special regs intended for a very different goal, then I could understand "no pinners". It would be implemented on very crowded streams (or even at certain dates), and the goal would be to allow more fishermen to fish smaller areas with less trouble between them. As a good example, the mouth of Walnut Creek in Erie would be a prime place for a "no pinner" rule basically all fall. Opening day on urban streams as well.
Other than that, live and let live.
That bothers me a bit. Especially the litter part. Whether or not an angler litters has everything to do with their behavior, and nothing at all to do with their choice of tackle. There may be a correlation, but not causation, they aren't really related. Many spin/bait guys don't litter, and many fly fishermen do.
As for foot traffic, aside from the first few weeks of the season, I'd guess that any special regulation increases it rather than decreases it.
PennKev
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100% true.
However, from what I've seen the vast majority of angler related trash and damage comes from opening day mayhem.
Fire rings, trash piles, tire tracks, etc. That is the sort of thing landowners want to avoid and special regs circumvent the one day of the year when that stuff is a real problem.
Furthermore, try to be diplomatic about the artificial vs bait litter situation all you want, but I see far more blue worm containers and eagle claw hook packages on general regs water than I do fly or artificial lure related trash. Does every type of angler litter? Sure, but the bait users are definitely the group responsible for the bulk of the trash. Granted they are the largest group of anglers, but go to any artificial only regulation area and see how much fishing related trash is there. Almost none.
foxtrapper1972
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Keep the center pinners out. They can go elsewhere. Keep FFO area for traditional flyfishing. Next thing you'll have guys casting flies with a clear plastic bobber on a spinning rod.
Bait guys are way worse...Only trash I see on fly stretch is the occasional lost foam indicator or a cigar butt. Go to ANY regular bait area and see loads of worm containers, powerbait containers, chicken liver containers lost flip flops and coffee cups etc...
Those key fobs that go beep should be outlawed everywhere.
Bait guys are way worse...Only trash I see on fly stretch is the occasional lost foam indicator or a cigar butt. Go to ANY regular bait area and see loads of worm containers, powerbait containers, chicken liver containers lost flip flops and coffee cups etc...
Those key fobs that go beep should be outlawed everywhere.
mcwillja
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As others have said pinning is not anything even close to flyfishing and is on he top of my list why i rarely fish the salmon river anymore. 300 yd drifts starting at the head of pools and ruining everyone's day has taken it's toll on me the past few years.
It is an extremely effective way to catch fish unfortunately so it will never go away. It seems to be getting more and more popular.
It is an extremely effective way to catch fish unfortunately so it will never go away. It seems to be getting more and more popular.
O
OldLefty
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I'll interject a few comments here.
First, there have been some well-known fly fishers who have used mono for nymph fishing for more years than some here have been on earth. Joe Humphreys is one of them. Anyone who fished this system (on a fly rod) could easily change lines and go to fishing a dry fly on the same rod. This separates a centerpinner from a fly fisher very quickly. Same with fishing a nymph under an indicator with a spinning rod. Can't make the switch to a floating fly line to fish a dry fly. Well, you can; but, it would be worse than a bear to cast.
There's no question that some manufacturers are producing some long fly rods - I encountered someone on a stream just yesterday with a fly rod of 11' in length. The big difference is that these rods are designed for - and labeled for- a particular weight fly line. No spinning nor centerpinning rod is thus labeled for a particular weight fly line. We also need to look beyond the rod to the reel. No centerpin reel nor spinning reel is designed to hold a fly line, nor were they intended to do so.
As for fishing nymphs with a long leader, even when I short-line nymph I have very little, if any, line beyond the rod tip; therefore, I am not presenting my fly by casting the fly line. I am using tackle which is specifically designed for fly fishing. Here's where I believe that centerpinning cannot be "lumped" into tackle permitted in a fly fishing only restriction and still retain any semblance of consistency. Just as spinning gear is not designed to deliver (some) flies using a fly line to present the fly, neither is a rod and reel designed for centerpinning.
If the true goal here is to chip away at FFO regulations, then go ahead and be up front about it: just do away with them.
As for the ill feelings about centerpinning, I believe the real problem is that some folks choose to ignore stream etiquette.
First, there have been some well-known fly fishers who have used mono for nymph fishing for more years than some here have been on earth. Joe Humphreys is one of them. Anyone who fished this system (on a fly rod) could easily change lines and go to fishing a dry fly on the same rod. This separates a centerpinner from a fly fisher very quickly. Same with fishing a nymph under an indicator with a spinning rod. Can't make the switch to a floating fly line to fish a dry fly. Well, you can; but, it would be worse than a bear to cast.
There's no question that some manufacturers are producing some long fly rods - I encountered someone on a stream just yesterday with a fly rod of 11' in length. The big difference is that these rods are designed for - and labeled for- a particular weight fly line. No spinning nor centerpinning rod is thus labeled for a particular weight fly line. We also need to look beyond the rod to the reel. No centerpin reel nor spinning reel is designed to hold a fly line, nor were they intended to do so.
As for fishing nymphs with a long leader, even when I short-line nymph I have very little, if any, line beyond the rod tip; therefore, I am not presenting my fly by casting the fly line. I am using tackle which is specifically designed for fly fishing. Here's where I believe that centerpinning cannot be "lumped" into tackle permitted in a fly fishing only restriction and still retain any semblance of consistency. Just as spinning gear is not designed to deliver (some) flies using a fly line to present the fly, neither is a rod and reel designed for centerpinning.
If the true goal here is to chip away at FFO regulations, then go ahead and be up front about it: just do away with them.
As for the ill feelings about centerpinning, I believe the real problem is that some folks choose to ignore stream etiquette.
