Stick with warm water?

[BelAirSteve]

I value the opinions of everyone on this board, so I thought I would ask a question. The purpose is two-fold...to get an answer and to hopefully stimulate some conversation.

I have not had a trout in my hand since probably the first week in June. Although I do miss it, based on what I have read, the trouts are pretty much better left alone is this kind of heat, but I would like to know more about why.

Let's discuss the Gunpowder specifically, then I'll ask about other types of streams. As you all know, the Gun is a tailwater, and althought the flows are low, the water in the upper reaches is in the mid 50's. If I were to target trout in the riffles, on a caddis for example, and land the fish and release them quickly, will this cause them much stress? The nice thing about the Gunpowder is that fish are usually holding where you would expect them to, so searching out some deeper riffles or pocket water would probably produce fish. I would not want to take even the most remote chance of stressing the fish however, so I am asking for input.

Now, more generally, is there any other type of water that is fishable under the extreme conditions we have experienced recently. I am within a 1 1/2 hour drive from most Lancaster County streams, and less that a 2 hour drive from Clarks for example. I would love to put a few trout in my hand, but if it just makes more sense to fish the warm water, I am perfectly content to do that. I can catch smallies between 9 and 12 inches, and red breasted sunfish as big as my hand all day long and be content.

Thanks for your input, and I look forward to reading it.

Steve

 

[gfen]

if the water is consistently cold, fish for trout. if the water is too warm, go elsewhere.

ergo, if the tail water never goes above sixty-whatever, then have at it. if it goes up to 70 during the day, and down to 52 at night, then don't.

 

[Gorosaurus]

Well, if you wanted conversation, I think a key point would be that you mentioned that you "would not want to take even the most remote chance of stressing the fish." If that's the case, then fishing is not for you.

I don't mean that rudely, I simply mean that if your goal is to enjoy the rush of reeling in a fish (in particular - trout), I can translate your comment as "I wouldn't want to risk fatal levels of stress on the fish I catch," which is actually quite different. I think that most of us here could agree that that is wonderful mindset.

Frankly, with these unusual and intense conditions, you either have to be alright with accepting the possibility of fish fatality (not that this outcome is a given, mind you), or you could fish different species. Although this is my personal opinion, I think that you have to be alright with the prior option if you plan on trouting ever. Our sport is a rigorous and sometimes violent one, and sometimes the best we can do is to limit the impact as much as possible. It sounds like that is your true intention, and I applaud it if so. If you, on the other hand, truly do not wish to risk fish fatality, then enjoy the warm water for best odds.


To answer your question, yes there are stream sections that are still good for fishing. Although I am still new to the sport, I have personally tested this and it holds true. Clarks, as you mentioned, is a long and typically fairly healthy stream. There are certainly areas of it that are good for fishing (though below optimal, mind you), but not well enough that would warrant a 2 hour drive. Stony, its sister stream, has sections that hold in the 50s very consistently. Those fish are about as skitzy as they come, and again I don't believe that's worth your drive.

Good luck, Steve! My long-winded opinion is that you'd be best off sticking close to home one way or another.

 

[turkey]

BelAirSteve wrote:

I have not had a trout in my hand since probably the first week in June. Although I do miss it, based on what I have read, the trouts are pretty much better left alone is this kind of heat, but I would like to know more about why.

Steve

Warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen than cold water. Essentially when a stream gets too warm, the trout can't "breathe".

 

[Fishidiot]

Personally, I'd rather catch smallie sthan trout and usually welcome the summer months after laying off bass during the spawn.
Whatever, the case, to answer your question - yes, there are trout fishing opporunities. The Cumberland Valley limestoners are fishable as are some PA tailwaters (although most of these are a further drive).

 

[DGC]

The Gunpowder is absolutely fine to fish even if the water is low. The mid-50's water temperatures see to that, along with the C & R regulations. Same for the Codorus tailwater, though that is Trophy Trout regs.

Limestoners are not all created equal, but the Cumberland Valley trio Letort, Falling Spring, and Big Spring are all absolutely fine to fish in a heat wave. If the water is also low it is still completely fine to fish them, but the catching may not be all that you are looking for.

The central PA limestoners require far more caution and attention to what section of the stream you fish during a low water heat wave, with Fishing Creek (Lamar) being the safest bet from a thermal perspective.

And as has been mentioned, some mountain freestones are simply cold and ok to fish, though many are not. If you like to sample different freestones, a thermometer is critical.

What are you looking for when deciding? Peak water temperatures that stay below the high 60's to low 70's depending on the stream, level, structure, amount of aeration, and fish population conditioning to the temperature regime over time.

Joe Humphreys's Trout Tactics, expanded edition, has a very detailed, somewhat complicated but everlastingly useful chapter on water temperature and trout. I have suggested it, perhaps ad nauseum, any time this topic arises. If there is any way to force it onto the PAFlyfish Books page, that would be a good thing.

 

[Lonewolve]

Bel Air,
get a thermometer carry it with you and take water temps if the temp is upper 60's say 67 start thinking about lettin those fish go an head to a great warmwater place.In summer keep this in mind fish mornings and late evenings if water temps are good for trout,during the mid day fish for panfish/bass/carp ect.
Used to be years ago Pennsylvania used to close the trout season by july i remeber cause thats when my pop and i would go chase panfish and bass.Made a lot of sense also the season was closed in fall so the fish could be left alone to spawn.

 

[IloveBrookies]

The Gunpowder should be good to fish. The water comes from the dam and stays nice and cold. I'd stick with the colder parts of the stream that are closer to the dam though, not sure how warm it gets the farther downstream you go. The water was pretty low a week ago when I went, so you'll definitely have to be careful not to spook the fish.

 

[Acristickid]

More and more during this time of the season I tend to stay close to home to fish- SWPA, you know trout purgatory.

Typically my trouting requires an hour and half drive or more. So with some many warm water choices close by- its a novelty to fish close to home for a few months. (white flies not on yet BTW) I fish for bass in places people rarely think to fish in suburban Pittsburgh, and do pretty well. A rare treat.

Might hit tricos on some of the cooler limers but that's about it for summer fishing.

 

[wildtrout2]

As mentioned previously, if you find the right freestone streams that are shaded and have a good gradient/water flow, you'll be fine. I have fished the same (different sections) Carbon county freestone the last 3 weeks in a row in this heat, and the stream temps were 57F on 7/10, 60F on 7/16, and yesterday it was 62F. The trout on this particular creek have been quite active. At this point though, I'll leave things go until we get some rain and or cooler temps. Always keep a stream thermometer with you, and use it!

 

[pcray1231]

I've never fished the gunpowder. But if its cold, and my impression is that its a large enough stream that it doesn't become a trickle, then yes, there's no reason not to fish it.

Water temp and holding water.

Water temps: If the water temp gets to 70ish, I'd avoid fishing. And I say gets to. Don't go testing it at 7 a.m. and think its good. Test in the afternoon when its at its warmest. If its still fine temperature then, then fine.

Holding water: Especially in small streams, some of them get so low as to be a trickle. Water can still be cold, but the trout can be stressed just because they are packed into about 5% of the normal holding water. I steer clear of these situations as well.

But yes, there are lots of streams that stay plenty cold and maintain good holding water. Even small streams can maintain good holding water if their physical structure is good. But the words of caution are good. Keep in mind this is stream specific, but many streams in an area are similar so there may be areas of the state that most streams should be off limits, and other areas where most streams are fine. Limestoners and forested, high gradient freestoners fare best as a general rule, but its just a general rule, have a look at the stream and decide for yourself.

 

[jdaddy]

Heck, the warm water fish may be in trouble at this point.

 

[TimMurphy]

jdaddy wrote:
Heck, the warm water fish may be in trouble at this point.

Dear jdaddy,

No doubt but that's the farthest thing from mind at this point.

I'm in trouble in this weather and I'm not going to fish if I am uncomfortable so the fishies are safe from me. ;-)

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[wgmiller]

Perhaps it's time to enjoy the A/C and tie some flies... 😀

 

[WildTigerTrout]

wgmiller wrote:
Perhaps it's time to enjoy the A/C and tie some flies... 😀

Not quite yet. The Tricos are starting on a local limestoner and the temps are fine. I'm fortunate that I live close to two good limestoners so can fish all summer most years. Old Lefty and I are going tomorrow morning.

 

[jdaddy]

TimMurphy wrote:

jdaddy wrote:
Heck, the warm water fish may be in trouble at this point.

Dear jdaddy,

No doubt but that's the farthest thing from mind at this point.

I'm in trouble in this weather and I'm not going to fish if I am uncomfortable so the fishies are safe from me. ;-)

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

Ya, us big boys gotta take it easy. I could have gotten myself in trouble the other day on the Letort. Covered a lot of miles and a lot of sweat. Funny thing though was seeing the young cross country team come running by, couldn't see a drop of sweat on them. Unreal.

I assume the river runs warmer down at Marietta and below? With it being 95 at Harrisburg, anyone project what it would have been further down stream? Or does damming create cold water pockets which reduces temps some?

 

[brookiesRfun]

I try to keep it simple as well. Water temps in the afternoon hit 70 then I don't fish for trout. So then I look for Small mouth bass and some of the local ponds for LMB and sunnies.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear jdaddy,

I think one of the reasons for the high water temps at the Harrisburg gauge is due to the fact that it's on the east shore of the river.

As such it gets to bear the full brunt of the afternoon sun, kind of like that local bank thermometer in your town that always reads 5 or 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the them.

The water is probably not actually in the 90's but the sun makes it read that high. It's probably all of 85 though.

Don't ever talk to me about people that run for fun, I won't even consider the flight response to real threat.

I'll die where I stand thank you, it's much easier that way! ;-)

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[tztrout]

Fished the Susquehanna in the Tunkhannock area yesterday early AM. I didn't have a thermomoter with me, but even in the riffles, it felt like bath water. Fish must have agreed, because I only landed 1 fish. I think the suggestion to stay in the ac and tie is right on the mark!

 

[IloveBrookies]

I've found that on a hot day on a cold trout stream, standing in the water is kinda like being next to an air conditioner...if I'm gonna be outside, it's where I want to be...but if it's too hot for other people, that's just more water for me! 🙂