How road salting impacts Pennsylvania waterways

[DaveKile]

I was just thinking about road salt this past week while looking at the white-encrusted streets around Chester County.

How road salting impacts Pa. waterways

This article was reprinted with permission on Jan. 18, 2022 from the Middle Susquehanna Riverkeeper Association. It was originally published on Riverkeeper Reflections.

www.northcentralpa.com

 

[Bamboozle]

We were kicking this topic around earlier this year:

How road salt from winter effects our streams

https://www.fox29.com/news/experts-explain-how-leftover-road-salt-impacts-water-sources?fbclid=IwAR3lvzHx8KCLbW3nxjBmWQ-kdnLd-Tjk8HW_MIrdSZrS3hN2MoMm1GzBvWM

www.paflyfish.com

 

[sgrim]

VFTU had Dr. John Jackson from Stroud Water Center speak at our November meeting on the topic (more here ) , and we've done some of our own monitoring of tribs to Valley Creek. The amount of residual salt that ends up in the streams is scary. Awareness of the problem seems to be increasing, but I don't think there are too many socially palatable alternatives.

 

[wildtrout2]

Yep, they salt the crap out of the roads around my area. It literally looks like it snowed (which it didn't) after they're done spreading the salt. It all winds up downstream somewhere. Anything to appease the wealthy folks I guess.

 

[Swattie87]

Drove to Pittsburgh last weekend for Christmas. Our dark gray (almost black) Subaru Outback was white, literally white, from the door handles down. It looked like a legit two-tone paint job from the 80’s/early 90’s.

It wasn’t a fun drive out Friday night. Thermometer on the car bottomed out at -6 at the top of Laurel Hill on the TPike. There was a light, fine snow and freezing fog from the Allegheny Front all the way west to my parents house, 20 miles south of Pittsburgh. Every pull off had cars scraping ice buildup off their windshields, assumedly after their de-icing equipment either froze or couldn’t keep up. Our windshield was fine, but I had to stop to clear the ice off my headlights. After an hour or so of driving through that they were covered in ice so bad it was if they were in DRL mode, as opposed to actually being on. Couldn’t see squat. -6 is really, really cold. Don’t recall the last time I saw that in PA, away from the far northern tier.

The roads were heavily salted, heaviest I’ve ever seen. Numerous times I wasn’t sure what I was driving through was piles of salt or snow. It was salt.

I know this much, it’s bad for cars. Especially body on frame vehicles with an exposed frame. I try to never let my 4Runner see salted roads. Have mostly succeeded aside from a few emergencies and rogue squalls. It gets a full undercarriage wash with the wand at the car wash whenever it does.

 

[DaveKile]

Having moved to Downingtown, I'm really more aware of all the dams and mills that blanketed the area years ago. There is a small spillover damn on Beaver Creek near me. I can't imagine any trout in the area after these mills started taking over. The pollution from the paper mills, tanneries and wastewater must have been pretty bad along with the start of thermal issues from the dams.

 

[sgrim]

The history in the area is really interesting. It’s hard to imagine the Brandywine of today powering any mills, and yet it surely did in the past.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

I know this much, it’s bad for cars. Especially body on frame vehicles with an exposed frame.

This was my 1st thought when I read this thread. I'm sure it's great for auto repair businesses.

 

[Bamboozle]

The history in the area is really interesting. It’s hard to imagine the Brandywine of today powering any mills, and yet it surely did in the past.

I grew up in eastern Delaware County and feel the same way about some of the even smaller creeks I explored as a kid.

Streams like Darby Creek, Karakung Creek (AKA Cobbs Creek) and Naylor's Run are all much smaller than the Brandywine but they all had many mills of different types along their lengths.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Having moved to Downingtown, I'm really more aware of all the dams and mills that blanketed the area years ago. There is a small spillover damn on Beaver Creek near me. I can't imagine any trout in the area after these mills started taking over. The pollution from the paper mills, tanneries and wastewater must have been pretty bad along with the start of thermal issues from the dams.

Was just fishing the Brandywine around that area 2 nights ago. Where the original channel(channels) was/were for beaver or the Brandywine there is anyones guess.

The other thing that i think about with most pa streams is, unless very high gradient, most would have been some where on the spectrum of multiple braided or anastomosing channels. Our current concept of rivers in this state from a general public stand point in pa is broken. Someone sees a tree go down in a medium to larger river and everyones first instinct is it has to be removed or moved to the side for aesthetics, kayaks/float tubes, or protecting downstream infrastructure/ property that in alot of cases is pretty poorly placed or designed in terms of the rivers functionality.

That large wood sometimes eventually causes island formation or splits the stream in to multiple channels when sediment/rock accumulates around it but when it gets yanked out immediately for some human reason it keeps resetting the clock eternally on the stream restoring itself.

Logging, agriculture, and creating millis likely had a lot to do with the channelization, change to single thread and straightening of a lot if these streams.

And keeping in line with the OP, then season F.U.B.A.R stream to liking with road salt to harm potential for aquatic life.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I have long held the belief that changes in ionic strength contributes to changing fish behavior during run off.
I don't like the tone of the last part of the article. It is true people try to maintain normal lives during storms, but do we not maintain roads for those who can't stay home (first responders, health care workers etc)?
Do we have increased business and school closures?- think about what keeping kids out of school has done.
To me the main reason is increased road and parking lot surfaces, not the need for people to keep their reservation at their favorite restaurant.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have long held the belief that changes in ionic strength contributes to changing fish behavior during run off.
I don't like the tone of the last part of the article. It is true people try to maintain normal lives during storms, but do we not maintain roads for those who can't stay home (first responders, health care workers etc)?
Do we have increased business and school closures?- think about what keeping kids out of school has done.
To me the main reason is increased road and parking lot surfaces, not the need for people to keep their reservation at their favorite restaurant.

We had kids in schools, dinner reservations and first responders when I was growing up.

Back then almost no one owned a 4 wheel drive vehicle but we had tire chains, tire studs to drive on the 2" - 3" of compacted snow left on the road surfaces by the local plowing crews.

There was NO expectation of summer driving conditions so folks drove slower and were more cautious when and if they had to go somewhere.

School closures were infrequent as well because the expectations was it was going to be slow going but if you took your time and drove carefully, you COULD get there.

I remember all too well listening to the sound of spinning tires and chains and we did a lot of this:

Today it is ridiculous...

People expect to drive the speed limit everywhere, the schools announce a closure 24 hours ahead of a forecast of an inch of snow and the only sounds you hear are snowplows, salt spreaders and TV commercials for "slip and fall" litigation from ambulance chasing law firms...

 

[wildtrout2]

I grew up in eastern Delaware County and feel the same way about some of the even smaller creeks I explored as a kid.

Streams like Darby Creek, Karakung Creek (AKA Cobbs Creek) and Naylor's Run are all much smaller than the Brandywine but they all had many mills of different types along their lengths.

On my way to Testa's Bakery in H Town, I always drive past Karakung Creek and wonder if it had brookies in it at one time.

 

[Bamboozle]

On my way to Testa's Bakery in H Town, I always drive past Karakung Creek and wonder if it had brookies in it at one time.

I used to work in "Beechwood" 'twixt Karakung Drive & Haverford Road and took the P&W to the Beechwood stop and walked over that creek to my job. Every day I'd spend a minute or two staring down into it wondering but I've never fished it.

I do know there were more than a few mills on Karakung Creek between today's Ardmore Avenue and City Line Avenue, the first being Haverford Mill, a grist mill built in 1688 about where I crossed the creek every morning.

Powder and paper mills plus an electrical power station and amusement park came later so any brookies that may have been in it were probably last there when the Leni Lenape roamed the area.

 

[Bamboozle]

On my way to Testa's Bakery in H Town, I always drive past Karakung Creek and wonder if it had brookies in it at one time.

BTW - You do know that Testa's is going out of business on December 31st after 40 years at that location...

 

[CRB]

Salt?? NWPA ... my jeep usually red is now pink.
This Christmas was very cold -2. Not a lot of snow but lots of wind whiteouts and a flash freeze on Friday made travel nearly impossible mid morning. Thank God the wind blew more southwest.

 

[wildtrout2]

BTW - You do know that Testa's is going out of business on December 31st after 40 years at that location...

Wow, I was just there two weeks ago. Nobody said anything about that and I didn't see any signage mentioning it.
Very sorry to hear that, I've been going there for years.

 

[Bamboozle]

Wow, I was just there two weeks ago. Nobody said anything about that and I didn't see any signage mentioning it.
Very sorry to hear that, I've been going there for years.

It's on their Facebook page...

You still have a couple of days to stock up.

 

[hunter1]

I have been driving on saltwater beaches for surf fishing for years. What I have found out over the years is that road salt will do more damage than what salt you pick up from beach sand.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Going to wash my beater today after work. The car wash is in close proximity to a cigar store and the weather appears to be mild enough for an evening outdoor smoke. WASH YOUR CARS PEOPLE, that salt kills your undercarriage over time.