PACOFRANSICO
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I
From the minnow chaser thread - An ethics lesson
- Thread starter TimMurphy
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PACOFRANSICO
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I see both sides of the fence. Before I got on the musky ride. I was a die hard brooky guy. I like the exploring for fish in little ditches. I guess the hunt for the unknown water. Now it the same thing with musky fishing. Searching for them. It's just totally different ends of the spectrum.
And another point how many brooky streams are unknown to the pafbc? And I figure exploring these little creeks no matter how small the trout are is worth it. If ya don't know there's a wild population there you can't protect it.....right
And another point how many brooky streams are unknown to the pafbc? And I figure exploring these little creeks no matter how small the trout are is worth it. If ya don't know there's a wild population there you can't protect it.....right
LongWader
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I agree Paco and it is a good point about finding them and protecting them, but once I do I look for bigger waters and fish down stream. Maybe it is fish like the tarpon, permit, steelhead, big browns, and authors like Hemmingway, and early big fish pioneers like Gray that gave me this delusional opinion about sport fishing, but I am not looking to change at this late date.
The_Sasquatch
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Word. It's really not about preference in the original post. It's about calling the majority of fly fishermen on this website "unethical". No one, I think, would read your post Longwader, and have the sour taste in their mouth that many of us had in reading the OP. Native brook trout fishing and big game fishing are two different games, with two different skillsets and two different goals, I think. That's cool. I frankly enjoy both. There are things I do consider to be unethical, but fishing native waters is not one of them (I would consider the situation jdaddy described on the Tully as unethical, but I think its a far stretch to compare it to small stream C&R practices. The ethical violation probably goes back to the people who decided to stock a fish in a system they know can't support them)
pcray1231
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LongWader, and Paco, I have no problem with preferences. I understand them. There are a million types of vastly different styles of fishing and that's part of what makes this sport great.
I too enjoy a variety. My brother is a hardware musky guy and I can join him in that pursuit and enjoy myself. I've spent a few nights catfishing using liver in the big rivers with a beer in my hand and a spinning rod resting on a forked stick. I enjoy a steelhead trip or two on most years. I love catching the evening rise on just about any bug rich, large stream with trout. I'm looking forward to trolling for freakin blue marlin and tuna this summer if I can swing a charter as part of a family vacation. There's no type of fishing I don't like, really.
I do have a soft spot for tiny deep woods streams and brookies. And that's simply my preference. I grew up exploring the big woods and it still feels like home. If I had one day left to fish for the rest of my life I'd choose the most remote, heavily wooded small stream I can find. It's funny how I can be just as thrilled about an 8" brook trout from a jump across stream as I can from a 16" brown on Penns, or a 30 inch steelhead, or a 30 lb yellowfin tuna. It's all relative, those are all "good" fish, but not trophies, and they carry about the same degree of admiration from me. The bottom line is that they are all a day in the great outdoors, and that's what it's really about.
But whatever my preferences, I have no problem with yours, and certainly wouldn't tell you that you're unethical for pursuing them.
I too enjoy a variety. My brother is a hardware musky guy and I can join him in that pursuit and enjoy myself. I've spent a few nights catfishing using liver in the big rivers with a beer in my hand and a spinning rod resting on a forked stick. I enjoy a steelhead trip or two on most years. I love catching the evening rise on just about any bug rich, large stream with trout. I'm looking forward to trolling for freakin blue marlin and tuna this summer if I can swing a charter as part of a family vacation. There's no type of fishing I don't like, really.
I do have a soft spot for tiny deep woods streams and brookies. And that's simply my preference. I grew up exploring the big woods and it still feels like home. If I had one day left to fish for the rest of my life I'd choose the most remote, heavily wooded small stream I can find. It's funny how I can be just as thrilled about an 8" brook trout from a jump across stream as I can from a 16" brown on Penns, or a 30 inch steelhead, or a 30 lb yellowfin tuna. It's all relative, those are all "good" fish, but not trophies, and they carry about the same degree of admiration from me. The bottom line is that they are all a day in the great outdoors, and that's what it's really about.
But whatever my preferences, I have no problem with yours, and certainly wouldn't tell you that you're unethical for pursuing them.
PACOFRANSICO
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That's why Baskin Robbins makes 31 different flavors. Each to his own. Anytime 1 have a fly rod in my hand I'm havin a good time and learning or atleast precessing fishing info.
LongWader
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Yep, a preference issue, and I am glad that there are folks who are willing to thin the herd so that some fish can get bigger. There is nothing that tastes better than native brookies cooked in a little bacon grease deep in the woods over a camp fire especially after a hard day of hiking and fishing.
Those big pelagics will humble you and those big reef donkeys or blue fins will make you holler for mercy sometimes.
8" brookies are fine with me, but I still can hope for bigger ones.
I grew up exploring the woods with my airdale rozzy and that is why I sold my big house, bought a big wooded lot with a trout stream and two unnamed brooks, and built a little cottage with a wood stove in the middle of it. My dogs and I do a visual trout stream inventory every day on our hikes along the streams. I even trained my airdale not to swim where I was fishing so I could enjoy her company and fish. It is the same with my current dogs.
I get a charge out of seeing the trout work there way up into the little spring fed brooks every fall to spawn, but to me that is sacred ground. My preference is not to harrass them once they get there.
Those big pelagics will humble you and those big reef donkeys or blue fins will make you holler for mercy sometimes.
8" brookies are fine with me, but I still can hope for bigger ones.
I grew up exploring the woods with my airdale rozzy and that is why I sold my big house, bought a big wooded lot with a trout stream and two unnamed brooks, and built a little cottage with a wood stove in the middle of it. My dogs and I do a visual trout stream inventory every day on our hikes along the streams. I even trained my airdale not to swim where I was fishing so I could enjoy her company and fish. It is the same with my current dogs.
I get a charge out of seeing the trout work there way up into the little spring fed brooks every fall to spawn, but to me that is sacred ground. My preference is not to harrass them once they get there.
jdaddy
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Is that not EXACTLY what I said?
On this subject matter you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
jdaddy
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The_Sasquatch
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Okay.
pcray,
Once again, I agree with you 100%!
A couple years ago while I was fly fishing Muddy Creek Forks (a week after opening day) I was having so much fun with the tiny 5" chubs and my 1wt rod, that I didn't want to only fish for the stockie trout? I thought about that while I was catchin' small chubs like crazy with tiny nymphs. Many years ago, when I was just a kid, I would catch some shiners with a size 22 hook and a tiny hunk of white bread and put the minnows in a bucket (me and my brother used them for bass) and when I went fishing for the big bass? ...... I really liked the hot action catching the minnows so much better!
You mentioned tuna? My Bro has a tuna boat that he docks in Wildwood, NJ and I go fishing with him all the time. It's a big boat with two 250 outboards, so it goes pretty fast. The bluefin are always 80 miles away (he gets gps locations that change all the time) So...... we have to leave early morn still dark, and drive full speed, 40 mph, in the big 4' waves for three hours just to get there! Then we troll cedar plugs and use downriggers with dead hooked bait and maybe catch a tuna or two? The tuna, around 60lbs, take a long time to get to gaff.
That's fun, but even more fun is catchin' tiny flounder and tiny weakfish in shallow water with light tackle! Super fun is catchin' those fish on a Clouser! and a 8wt!
You mentioned catfish? I catch my share with a fly rod and woolybuggers? (they stock small 10" channel cats at Wrightsville in the Susquehanna) and those hungry fish like a fly just as good as liver! Actually, I don't like the big, smelly, old ones!
I take a awful lot of pix every time I go fishing, and when I check them out (on a cold night like this) the small abundant fish on a small fly rod is always the most fun for me!
StarvinMarvin
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Should I quit fishing for Stripers because about 50% of the ones I catch are 12-16" long on a 5-6" jerkbait? . . .
No, I was just reading that more often than not the smaller immature fish will top water feed on larger terrestrials and flies more often than other more mature fish because it is not mattured to the stages of only eating nymphs and topwater feeding primarily during hatches like the ones that have been in there for years. Think about it, if you were a little guy and a nice happy meal came by, you'd eat it too. So in regards to this I would say smallers flies may produce bigger fish. This is coming from what I happened to read today on the cammode.
No, I was just reading that more often than not the smaller immature fish will top water feed on larger terrestrials and flies more often than other more mature fish because it is not mattured to the stages of only eating nymphs and topwater feeding primarily during hatches like the ones that have been in there for years. Think about it, if you were a little guy and a nice happy meal came by, you'd eat it too. So in regards to this I would say smallers flies may produce bigger fish. This is coming from what I happened to read today on the cammode.
Foxgap239
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I have read this entire thread (boy do I need to get a life) and I find it interesting on several levels. After reading it though, here's my question to Tim (whom I usually find myself agreeing with but not here), how does your argument relate "legal size" to "ethics" when there are states where there is no legal minimum size? I fish in Southern CA where there are native rainbows and wild browns (most would not meet PA's legal minimum) and there is no state minimum there (or so I'm told by a local guide out there). Is it "ethical" there because the state says it's legal and "unethical" here in PA because our state has a legal minimum? Like I said, I respect your opinion but I really can't find any grounds here to agree.
Foxgap239
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Another thing, I saw a post in this thread where someone said they never saw a Blue Heron along a brook trout stream. I can tell you I saw one this past weekend on a stream where in was so small I'm not sure how the Heron could fly down the creek without hitting his wings on tree limbs. And I saw him do just that as a spooked him out. It was impressive how fast he moved through that maze! I'm not sure if that person was being serious or not but Blue Herons do apparently stalk brookie streams too.
