Big Brother is Watching
- Thread starter Kneedeep
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jdaddy
Active member
Wow. So I wonder how many TU members are on that list for getting the citizens safety training?
TimB
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I was think the same thing about TU after reading a more detailed story in the Patriot News yesterday:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/09/post_122.html
Fortunately, the story got the attention of the Governor:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/09/rendell_ends_monitoring_of_opp.html
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/09/post_122.html
Fortunately, the story got the attention of the Governor:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/09/rendell_ends_monitoring_of_opp.html
AndyP
Active member
The coziness between the Gas industry and the State Government is just great isn't it ? Try getting the State to share info on the gas drillers....I bet you'll be on kold a long time.
Scrw Rendell. Fast Eddy is a classic politician playing both sides and in the end will probably just sell out the state but include his usual justification spin on how what he did was actually for the good of the citizens of PA. Hey Eddie, want to do something good? Then how about you and the rest of the worthless legislature in Harrisburg get the long overdue severance tax in place, and make sure it adequately protects the citizens of PA and the rest of our natural resources. Hope I'm on your list too. Don't tread on me.
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Ryan and those that agree with his sentiments:
Have you ever run for state representative or any other public office? If not, why not? You are so wise as to second-guess every major decision that is being made on your behalf, I think it would be much easier if you put yourself out there to make better decisions, rather than just blowing hot air on message boards in anonimity.
Why is it "spin" when a public servant does what he or she sees to be "actually for the good of the citizens of PA?" Do you know better what is good for the citizens of PA? Then run for office.
It's always fun and sometimes popular to make statements such as yours, but rarely does it accomplish any good. In fact it is counter-productive most times because it paints an unfair picture of our government. It is almost sadly laughable that people think they know better than elected public officials, yet never do much more than vote if they have nothing better to do on Election Day.
Do you know who opposes the severance tax? Look into, then consider voting accordingly. If necessary, change your party affiliation so you can have a voice in the nominees for public office as well next Spring.
Your criticism, if it could be called that, is really nothing more than a string of insults straight from the playbook of an angry, uninformed, yet powerless citizen. These types, unwilling as they are to find out about major policy choices and determine what candidates for public office support such views, typically are led about by the nose with strung together insults. Rational discussion of the issue, if it ever occurs, is too complex for most of these half-baked, amateur pundits to participate in.
One shot in your PM to me wasn't enough I see. Not running for office does not preclude me or anyone else from questioning and criticizing elected officials. I've been following this issue a bit over the last several years and from where I stand Rendell is doing little more than flip-flopping back and forth (some might say pandering) on the issue of a severance tax. First he was for it, then he backed off based on the unwarranted fear that the gas companies would leave. Apparently he hadn't figured out that a) other states have severance taxes in place and the gas companies didn't leave. b) and based on looking at the formation map, PA has the largest Marcellus reserves, the gas companies aren't going anywhere. Now he thinks we may need one but doesn't want to be to tough on the gas companies. In between all of this, one of his top advisors left his administration to take a job as a lobbyist for one of the major gas companies hoping to profit from PA's Marcellus Shale gas reserves.
My comments regarding the rest of the politicians in Harrisburg were definitely an insult. You're false characterizations of me mean little to me given the source and the fact I really care little about what most people think of me. I try to do what I think is right and am not above apologising when i'm wrong. Given the # of scandals & crimes within the legislature over the last few years I don't think my angry comments were offbase.
It was a simple, quick blast regarding a situation(severance tax) that isn't rocket science and should have been resolved at least 2 years ago. So I think calling the legislature worthless is spot on. Sorry it wasn't in line with the typical bloviation of Jack M.
But let's discuss it rationally Jack, I'll try to rise up from my amateur status to your intellectually superior level. What are you're opinions on the severance tax, on Rendell collecting a list of citizens voicing their concerns regarding gas drilling?
My comments regarding the rest of the politicians in Harrisburg were definitely an insult. You're false characterizations of me mean little to me given the source and the fact I really care little about what most people think of me. I try to do what I think is right and am not above apologising when i'm wrong. Given the # of scandals & crimes within the legislature over the last few years I don't think my angry comments were offbase.
It was a simple, quick blast regarding a situation(severance tax) that isn't rocket science and should have been resolved at least 2 years ago. So I think calling the legislature worthless is spot on. Sorry it wasn't in line with the typical bloviation of Jack M.
But let's discuss it rationally Jack, I'll try to rise up from my amateur status to your intellectually superior level. What are you're opinions on the severance tax, on Rendell collecting a list of citizens voicing their concerns regarding gas drilling?
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Thank you. I find the severance tax a worthwhile concept, but when you try to put it down on paper, there are a lot of details to be worked out. Tax on exploration, on volume available, or volume drawn, tax dependent upon safety measures in place, tax variable as to sensitive locations, how much tax, tax on who? Rendell has never opposed severance taxes and hasn't "flip-flopped." The use by you of the term "flip-flop" in and of itself clues me into where your information is coming from. Have you examined the campaign finance reports for Rendell, your legislator, your Senator, the National candidates that represent you? Well, have you? Who is taking more money from whom?
As for the "Big Brother" spying. I laugh. Spooky stuff there. The government has information on you. How did that happen? Don't you think the industry has the same information? Did they get it from the government or did the government get it from them? And, so what if someone knows you support environmental causes. Are you ashamed of it? If I recall correctly, so-called "ecoterrorism" is a major concern in the USA. Should we fail to avail ourselves of information that might help us stop such criminal behavior? If your advocacy against Marcellus Shale is legitimate, there is nothing to worry about. But, if you are a potential eco-terrorist, better watch out.
Have you read any of the proposed legislation for a severance tax? I think at most you have listened to, and repeated the rhetoric of political pundits instead. Whereas a tax could raise needed revenues to protect local interests and statewide resources, it can also be a disincentive to production and exploration. The right kind of tax must be designed and implimented and at the right rate so that important public interests are protected, while still encouraging the development of the industry in Pennsylvania.
Even the "antis" on the MS issue have to admit the economic development that will result from the industry is not to be taken lightly. So out in Harrisburg as we speak, the legislators who you so coldly and effortlessly refer to as worthless are actually studying these issues. I don't know about you (but do have suspicions), but that's why I "hired" them. And I'm not so ****-sure of my armchair opinions about MS as you are. I think the "worthless" legislators, on average, know about 50 times more about the situation than you or I do; in fact, I am certain of it.
So if you have comments about the substance of the alleged "spying" on TU or the wisdom of finding a proper balance between encouraging the Natural Gas Industry to develop PA's resources without harming the environment, please share them. But if you just want to act tough and call public officials nasty names and accuse them all of the worst corruption without any evidence of the same, be prepared for me to reply on their behalf.
As for the "Big Brother" spying. I laugh. Spooky stuff there. The government has information on you. How did that happen? Don't you think the industry has the same information? Did they get it from the government or did the government get it from them? And, so what if someone knows you support environmental causes. Are you ashamed of it? If I recall correctly, so-called "ecoterrorism" is a major concern in the USA. Should we fail to avail ourselves of information that might help us stop such criminal behavior? If your advocacy against Marcellus Shale is legitimate, there is nothing to worry about. But, if you are a potential eco-terrorist, better watch out.
Have you read any of the proposed legislation for a severance tax? I think at most you have listened to, and repeated the rhetoric of political pundits instead. Whereas a tax could raise needed revenues to protect local interests and statewide resources, it can also be a disincentive to production and exploration. The right kind of tax must be designed and implimented and at the right rate so that important public interests are protected, while still encouraging the development of the industry in Pennsylvania.
Even the "antis" on the MS issue have to admit the economic development that will result from the industry is not to be taken lightly. So out in Harrisburg as we speak, the legislators who you so coldly and effortlessly refer to as worthless are actually studying these issues. I don't know about you (but do have suspicions), but that's why I "hired" them. And I'm not so ****-sure of my armchair opinions about MS as you are. I think the "worthless" legislators, on average, know about 50 times more about the situation than you or I do; in fact, I am certain of it.
So if you have comments about the substance of the alleged "spying" on TU or the wisdom of finding a proper balance between encouraging the Natural Gas Industry to develop PA's resources without harming the environment, please share them. But if you just want to act tough and call public officials nasty names and accuse them all of the worst corruption without any evidence of the same, be prepared for me to reply on their behalf.
PoconoPuke
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So far the Luzerne County Grand Jury has handed down at least 30 indictments. 2 of them were judges on the Court of Common Pleas and 1 Clerk of Courts. There is no corruption and there is no such thing as the mafia 😉
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Don't project your feelings on corruption onto me. There is too much in my view. But it isn't universal, likely nowhere near even "wide-spread." It has been around since the Romans and it isn't going anywhere soon as the electorate in our great democracy has allowed itself to be lead around by the nose by the interests with the loudest voice, which is the same as the interest with the most money.
But the tripe posted by Ryan isn't any way to "combat" corruption. In my view, it feeds it. Because instead of intelligently researching the views of our elected officials and candidates for public office, we buy into the mud-slinging, name-calling, anti-this, anti-that, without any ideas of our own. This lets the special interests manipulate the government way more than if the electorate took a reasoned and pro-active approach to helping to shape our government and governmental institutions.
But the tripe posted by Ryan isn't any way to "combat" corruption. In my view, it feeds it. Because instead of intelligently researching the views of our elected officials and candidates for public office, we buy into the mud-slinging, name-calling, anti-this, anti-that, without any ideas of our own. This lets the special interests manipulate the government way more than if the electorate took a reasoned and pro-active approach to helping to shape our government and governmental institutions.
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Follow the money. Deadline to change party affiliation is October 4, though it won't matter how you are registered for the November Election. It does matter how you vote, however:
http://www.marcellusmoney.org/donations
http://www.marcellusmoney.org/companies
http://www.marcellusmoney.org/candidates
http://www.marcellusmoney.org/donations
http://www.marcellusmoney.org/companies
http://www.marcellusmoney.org/candidates
Wow, thanks for all your preconceived opinions. For someone that appears to fancy themselves a bit smarter than the rest its appropriate that you link my use of the now broadly-used term "flipflop" automatically to certain political pundits. However you're wrong. You say I haven't researched the issue based solely on your gross mischaracterization and offense over a quick angly blast on a forum? That my friend seems laughable to me. I know your opinion is made up but for the record I rarely, if ever, tune into political pundits. How can you say Rendell has not gone back and forth regarding the severance tax? Have you been paying attention to the issue, much more than just the last few months?
I've tried to stay as informed as I can on it and my opinions have been forged over time. I have written or phoned my representatives on the importance of the severance tax numerous times. I have expressed my thoughts to the governor. I've done so in an intelligent and thought out manner. I've encouraged my chapter members to get informed and express their opinions on it to their representatives. I've looked into (admittedly briefly) the "campaign money tree" on the issue in Harrisburg. My information regarding the severance tax and Marcellus related isues comes from reading various material on it, meetings and information sharing amongst PATU and other conservation orgs, Rendell's own words on it, and the fact that while its in place in other states and drilling is rapidly expanding throughout PA we still haven't even accomplished this obvious task. If it's so difficult why have other states enacted a severance tax? Are their legislators smarter than ours? Heck, there are several models with which to choose and learn from. Since according to you its laughable to think our elected officials don't know what's best for us, care to explain why, given that there are other states models to use, the legislature has so far failed to enact an adequate severance tax to protect Pennsylvania's citizens, taxpayers, and vast natural resources and places?
BTW, I left the Republican party to become independent earlier this year in large part due to the majority of the party's refusal to back a severance tax. And I don't vote "just if I have nothing better to do on election day." I vote because its my right and duty as a productive & concerned citizen and patriot of the United States. I've been an active voter since I turned 18, which was 19 yrs ago. That includes my absentee ballots when I served my country overseas.
I've tried to stay as informed as I can on it and my opinions have been forged over time. I have written or phoned my representatives on the importance of the severance tax numerous times. I have expressed my thoughts to the governor. I've done so in an intelligent and thought out manner. I've encouraged my chapter members to get informed and express their opinions on it to their representatives. I've looked into (admittedly briefly) the "campaign money tree" on the issue in Harrisburg. My information regarding the severance tax and Marcellus related isues comes from reading various material on it, meetings and information sharing amongst PATU and other conservation orgs, Rendell's own words on it, and the fact that while its in place in other states and drilling is rapidly expanding throughout PA we still haven't even accomplished this obvious task. If it's so difficult why have other states enacted a severance tax? Are their legislators smarter than ours? Heck, there are several models with which to choose and learn from. Since according to you its laughable to think our elected officials don't know what's best for us, care to explain why, given that there are other states models to use, the legislature has so far failed to enact an adequate severance tax to protect Pennsylvania's citizens, taxpayers, and vast natural resources and places?
BTW, I left the Republican party to become independent earlier this year in large part due to the majority of the party's refusal to back a severance tax. And I don't vote "just if I have nothing better to do on election day." I vote because its my right and duty as a productive & concerned citizen and patriot of the United States. I've been an active voter since I turned 18, which was 19 yrs ago. That includes my absentee ballots when I served my country overseas.
I'm not at all anti on the MS issue, never have been. Studying the issues, or reading the tea leaves for the best way to stay elected? Those legislators that you claim are 50 times more knowledgeable than you or I on this situation solicited PATU's knowledge and expertise on the issues concerning MS gas drilling in PA. Specifically it was the Rendell administration, did you know that?
As far as the dontaion money, thanks for posting the links I'm still reading through all the pages. do you think that the majority of the donations are to Republicans because of two things 1) the places in PA where most drilling will occur are largely represented by Republicans? and 2) Republicans largely control the legislature in Harrisburg right now and Corbett is largely seen as the front runner to be the next governor?
I did see that Rendell's name came up quite a bit with numerous smaller donations, same with Onorato's.
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How anyone, including even you, can look at the contributions and rationalize something other than that Pennsylvania's Republican Party has been bought out by the Marcellus Shale Industry is beyond my comprehension. No doubt the industry plays both sides, but they are playing the Right side much more heavily, doncha think?
So next time you're on Capitol Hill advising our elected representatives, be sure and thank all those Independent Party legislators for their contribution to public policy-- oh, nevermind, there aren't any.
So next time you're on Capitol Hill advising our elected representatives, be sure and thank all those Independent Party legislators for their contribution to public policy-- oh, nevermind, there aren't any.
Did I say anything to the contrary? Excuse me, I actually was just asking for your opinion on the questions I asked? I guess so much for civil discussion with that reaction (pretty much a one way street for you?) So thanks Captain Obvious for restating what I actually was implying. Of course they're playing the Right side more, they're hedging their bets based on what I stated in my questions to you, you didn't get that? Oh I get it either you're a Democrat or not worth a darn and that's pretty much the extent of any issue with you. To me the MS issue isn't just a republican or democratic issue, it includes both sides of that pettiness.
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You just offered excuses to explain the discrepency between the meager sums laid at the feet of Democrats versus the huge contributions to Republicans. Instead of acknowledging that the Rs are bought, you deflect the data as merely showing some geographic disparity. No need to explain further, just put your vote (you can vote in November) where your mouth is:
http://www.conservationpa.org/news/dan-onorato-earns-conservation-voters-of-pennsylvania-endorsement/
http://www.conservationpa.org/news/dan-onorato-earns-conservation-voters-of-pennsylvania-endorsement/
