Water Level/Stream Gauge Guidance

[sam]

I'm heading out to Central PA for a week long trip. Even though I think we really need the rain, I'm a bit bummed looking at the forecast because it looks like we're going to get a LOT of rain and I'm concerned about everything being blown out for a few days.

Is there a place I can find guidance on what flow rates are for safe wading? I've not been to any of these streams before so it will be hard for me to tell what is safe wading and quite frankly, where to wade, if the water is high and dirty.

 

[afishinado]

I'm heading out to Central PA for a week long trip. Even though I think we really need the rain, I'm a bit bummed looking at the forecast because it looks like we're going to get a LOT of rain and I'm concerned about everything being blown out for a few days.

Is there a place I can find guidance on what flow rates are for safe wading? I've not been to any of these streams before so it will be hard for me to tell what is safe wading and quite frankly, where to wade, if the water is high and dirty.

Below is a link to a listing of stream flows in PA. The long term median flow is a good indication of normal flows for the time of year. There's no way to predict how much rain we will receive so you'll have to play it by ear. Penns Creek is notorious for muddying up with heavy rain, while Spring Creek normally stays fishable the longest. I suggest check with the local fly shop like Fly Fishers Paradise or TCO for current condition's when you're in the area. Good luck on your trip. Post a stream report when you return.

USGS Current Conditions for Pennsylvania_ Streamflow

 

[troutbert]

When the big, famous streams get too high to fish, the smaller forested freestone streams are often not only OK, but actually at their best.

So, check your state forest and state gamelands maps, and have some smaller streams in mind to fish if the big famous streams are blown out.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

It's usually easy to see when the water is too fast to wade in when you're actually there. Before you travel to it, your best bet is to look up and call a local tackle shop for conditions. Even the flyfishing section at the BassPro in Harrisburg has a chalkboard for local streams (in central PA). You can also use this forum if you want to provide a specific location.
I've seen 500cfps as the suggested maximum flow that is safe for wading. However, there are other factors to consider such as type of stream bottom, the presence of sweepers downstream (one of those drowned an acquaintance of mine and his experienced guide), the boots you are wearing, your own abilities, and especially the holes that you can't see through dirty water - it's your judgement call. From a conversation with one of the guides at Slate Run Tackle Shop (years ago.. I don't know if she still guides), I know that you don't even need to wade in Pine Creek when it's over the banks - the fish are reachable from the shore. Also, if the bigger water is not wadeable, smaller water can still save a trip.
Sorry if it messes up your plans, but PA really needs a LOT of rain. Most of the map is red/orange/yellow.

 

[sam]

When the big, famous streams get too high to fish, the smaller forested freestone streams are often not only OK, but actually at their best.

So, check your state forest and state gamelands maps, and have some smaller streams in mind to fish if the big famous streams are blown out.

Good to know. I was already planning to hit several of these so I'll just hold off on hitting them until the rain comes in.

 

[sam]

It's usually easy to see when the water is too fast to wade in when you're actually there. Before you travel to it, your best bet is to look up and call a local tackle shop for conditions. Even the flyfishing section at the BassPro in Harrisburg has a chalkboard for local streams (in central PA). You can also use this forum if you want to provide a specific location.
I've seen 500cfps as the suggested maximum flow that is safe for wading. However, there are other factors to consider such as type of stream bottom, the presence of sweepers downstream (one of those drowned an acquaintance of mine and his experienced guide), the boots you are wearing, your own abilities, and especially the holes that you can't see through dirty water - it's your judgement call. From a conversation with one of the guides at Slate Run Tackle Shop (years ago.. I don't know if she still guides), I know that you don't even need to wade in Pine Creek when it's over the banks - the fish are reachable from the shore. Also, if the bigger water is not wadeable, smaller water can still save a trip.
Sorry if it messes up your plans, but PA really needs a LOT of rain. Most of the map is red/orange/yellow.

Thanks for the additional info.

 

[Schaefer406]

I'm heading out to Central PA for a week long trip. Even though I think we really need the rain, I'm a bit bummed looking at the forecast because it looks like we're going to get a LOT of rain and I'm concerned about everything being blown out for a few days.

Is there a place I can find guidance on what flow rates are for safe wading? I've not been to any of these streams before so it will be hard for me to tell what is safe wading and quite frankly, where to wade, if the water is high and dirty.

For Central PA:
- Spring Creek usually remains very fishable for a while after a rain event starts. It fishes better when the water is higher and off color. Looking at Axemann, I would personally fish it 175 CFS and lower. Milesburg, 225 CFS is probably my max as wading gets hard close to this.
- Penns: 450 CFS is probably my max but this can restrict access. 300-400 is optimal. Be very careful above 400 if you are less agile and stick to the banks. Water color also muddies up quick with rain.
- BFC: Flows somewhat "tail" Penns, but will be lower than Penns due to its size. If Penns is high and muddy, BFC is likely high and muddy.
- Little J: I have fished the J up to 600 CFS before but man it was tough wading, but I had my best day ever at 600. Optimal flows are 300 - 500 assuming good water color. I think the J is tougher to wade than Penns IMO in some areas.

As others have said, it is your judgement call. Wading safety is very important and different for every individual, and it is best to not take a risk than to take the risk. I've gotten myself into some sticky situations pushing the limits before and it is not a pleasant feeling. If there is a lot of rain and Spring isn't blown out completely, that is probably your best bet out of the "Big 4". The small streams in the area will be fishing very well and I suggest you stick to those if the rain amounts being predicted occur. If you want to ask questions, the guys at TCO State College would be happy to answer your questions.

 

[troutbert]

How much rain are you seeing in the forecasts? One forecast appears to be predicting a little over 2 inches. That will be good.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

2.5 in over 3-4 days is exactly the type of rain we need. The trees will soak a lot of it up, but it should be slow enough to infiltrate and help the groundwater situation. I don't think it will make any of the streams unfishable, but wading may be tough on streams like Penns and BFC in the narrows.

 

[NittanyBearcat]

Typically rain in the forecast during this time of year would lead to difficult fishing conditions. With that being said, streams in central PA are currently very low. The rain may make them high but I doubt they will be unfishable.

 

[Swattie87]

IMO ideal flows on the big 3 are as follows:

Spring: 200ish
Penns: 300-400ish
Little J: 250-350ish

This gives you the best balance of accessibility coupled with good flows producing lots of good holding water. Also note that Spring is smaller and far easier to wade than Penns or Little J, so it can be comparatively a little higher, comparative to its size.

The max I’d try fishing them is below. At these flows, you’ll be restricted with where you can go, and you’ll need to pick your spots and not wade yourself into trouble or over your abilities, but they can still be carefully and selectively fished:

Spring: 300ish
Penns: 600-700 tops
Little J: 500-600 tops

Above these, IMO, it’s too dangerous and not worth it. Time to Brookie fish as tb mentioned.

I don’t have a good handle on BFC. Does it even have a gauge?

Kish is best at 200ish, with a max of 300 IMO.

Edit: Bottom line, use your judgement, if it looks unsafe to wade, don’t wade.

 

[Swattie87]

Typically rain in the forecast during this time of year would lead to difficult fishing conditions. With that being said, streams in central PA are currently very low. The rain may make them high but I doubt they will be unfishable.

They’re not that low, just low for this time of year, which is typically the highest average flows for the year. 2.5 or 3 inches of rain, if it shows up, will absolutely blow them out for a few days. Probably a good thing long term for fishing into May, but not ideal if you had plans for this weekend. Again, assuming the rain materializes.

 

[Nocktavius]

I'm heading out to Central PA for a week long trip. Even though I think we really need the rain, I'm a bit bummed looking at the forecast because it looks like we're going to get a LOT of rain and I'm concerned about everything being blown out for a few days.

Is there a place I can find guidance on what flow rates are for safe wading? I've not been to any of these streams before so it will be hard for me to tell what is safe wading and quite frankly, where to wade, if the water is high and dirty.

Based on the NOAA guidance, it looks like most of the heaviest rain will fall Sunday with a bit of a dry slot on Saturday. If I were going up, I'd plan to get an early start Saturday AM and fish the rising waters from Friday's lighter rains. You'll probably be throwing streamers, nymphing with flashier patterns or pink squirmies, etc- but the fish (and particularly the BIG fish) will be easier to catch than they have been in weeks.

For the Little J and Penns I've fished 600-800 cfs and found plenty of wading spots. 900 gets dicey of course, but theres a difference between a more steady 900 and a peak of 900 with dropping flows. I've also found the Spring Creek gauge to be a pretty good predictor of what Penns is gonna do since they share basically the same headwaters on opposite sides of the mountain and Spring tends to rise and fall a lot faster than Penns. Also remember the gauge for Penns is pretty far down river (beyond the trout water), while the little J's gauge is essentially smack in the middle.

Sunday might be a washout, but especially with the trees leafing out I'd expect you to be able to fish the smaller stuff by Monday evening and the larger rivers by midweek. It might kill the best dry fly action, but there's been more of that this year already than we probably deserve on these rivers. I think this rain could actually provide you with some of the best fishing of the season we've had thus far, especially if you focus on subsurface presentations. The pressure will be way off, the water murked up to an ideal level and the fish will be actively feeding. I might take some time off midweek to fish up that way myself.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Mother nature's about to put her foot down. Time to separate the mice from the men I say! If mother natures says step to me YOU STEP. Nature's a casino baby, high states VERY HIGH rewards. I think this weekend should be a fantastic time get after these massive browns. They will be out and about with more head room than they've had all year eating away like Rosie O'Donnell in a cheesecake factory, completely oblivious to all forms of angling activity. So grab a stout streamer or nymph rod, wear your studded boots, and get to it! You'll have most of the stream to yourself anyways so I would get out if I were you. I may go up Thursday, that should be a killer day to nymph. I presume there will be overcast and maybe even a sprinkle. Who's afraid of a little water? The uglier the weather, the better the fishing.

 

[Nocktavius]

That’s the spirit!

As someone who takes a swim almost every trip, there ain’t much in central PA that’s gonna kill ya if you fall in. I’ve hooked many a good fish, slipped and ridden it out through the Poe Paddy rapids Paul Maclean style.

 

[Swattie87]

My main wading concern, outside of cold water issues, is falling and hitting my head on the way down. That’s why I don’t wade too aggressively. Age 39 now, and every year I get a little more cautious it seems.

 

[wildtrout2]

That’s why I don’t wade too aggressively. Age 39 now, and every year I get a little more cautious it seems.

A wife and new born baby will do that to a guy.

 

[Swattie87]

A wife and new born baby will do that to a guy.

That too!

 

[salmo]

My main wading concern, outside of cold water issues, is falling and hitting my head on the way down. That’s why I don’t wade too aggressively. Age 39 now, and every year I get a little more cautious it seems.

Age 73 here and still wading

 

[troutbert]

As someone who takes a swim almost every trip, there ain’t much in central PA that’s gonna kill ya if you fall in. I’ve hooked many a good fish, slipped and ridden it out through the Poe Paddy rapids Paul Maclean style.

I've been fly fishing since about 1970, and have never "taken a swim" when fishing.
(It was close a few times, though.)

If you're taking a swim almost every trip, think about making some changes. That's dangerous.