Money problems

L

live2fish

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Joined
Sep 9, 2006
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We aren’t the only one with money problems. Would have posted the link, but you would have to register to see it.

TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- Dozens of parks will close, fish planting will be scaled back and fewer conservation officers will be on the job unless recreational licenses and fees are increased, the Michigan Department of Natural Resources said Tuesday.
The DNR released a memo outlining a series of cutbacks -- some beginning as early as Nov. 1 -- that will be ordered if the state budget being negotiated by legislators includes no additional revenue for the department.
None of the $1.3 billion in state tax increases approved earlier this month will go to the DNR, which draws less than 5 percent of its money from the general fund, the state's primary checkbook. More than 75 percent of the department's budget comes from licenses and fees for activities such as hunting, fishing and timber cutting.
The department is seeking a wide-ranging package of fee increases -- including the first boost in hunting and fishing license prices since 1996.
But prospects for approval aren't good, DNR spokeswoman Mary Detloff said. Lawmakers have sent the message there is "just no support for fee increases" on top of the higher taxes, she said.
Without the increases, funds that support game and fish programs, forest development and state parks will have deficits. That will require "drastic reductions" in programs and services, the DNR said.
Thirty-seven state parks, recreation areas and scenic sites would close Oct. 1, 2008. The department hasn't yet chosen which ones, Detloff said. Eight of the state's 10 interpretive centers also would close. A total of 253 park staff positions would be eliminated then.
Seventy-nine jobs in other programs would be eliminated Nov. 1, 2007. Program cutbacks that would take effect as early as next month include:
* Two state forest campgrounds would be closed, in addition to 20 scheduled for closure last summer. Some state pathways and cross-country ski trails would close.
* University research programs and monitoring for animal-borne diseases such as bovine tuberculosis, chronic wasting disease and avian influenza would be reduced.
* Two fish hatcheries and a research station would be closed.
* Fewer conservation officers would be available for tasks such as poaching investigations and responding to hunting and snowmobiling accidents. Conservation officers no longer would be dispatched to back up other law enforcement agencies for incidents such as car crashes.
* Nuisance bear and geese no longer would be removed.
* Some field offices would be closed and staff in others would be reduced.
Rep. Joel Sheltrown, chairman of the House Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources Committee, said the DNR appeared to be targeting popular programs to boost pressure on lawmakers.
"Often down here we look at cutting people in the field instead of cutting in Lansing," said Sheltrown, D-West Branch. "Hopefully we can avoid that. Generally, the people out in the field are the people doing the work."
Detloff said the DNR could not spare popular programs, having already cut spending more than $20 million since the 2005 fiscal year.
Sheltrown said he met recently with sporting groups in hopes of building support for fee increases but was told the Senate had ruled them out. But lawmakers are still talking about earmarking an additional $8 million from the general fund for the DNR, he said.
 
It's my understanding that Michigan is the state hardest hit by economic downturn,mainly because of the domestic auto setbacks.Sad but the times are changing.
If you have done much traveling around the country you may have noticed that Michigan,New Jersey and Californians seem to have the greatest wanderlust.Funny how that works.
 
buy american, buy american, buy american. stop buying foriegn cars and stop shopping at wal-mart.
 
buy american, buy american, buy american. stop buying foriegn cars
(end quote) (And, "American" should be capitalized, out of respect!)

That said;
I own a FORD Ranger............ 90% of it's pre-assembly is done in JAPAN.
I also own a HONDA CRV, which was start, to finish, 100% built in TEXAS.
WHICH "American" car, would you like me to buy?

I don't shop at a Wally's World, because there isn't one close enough to me. But, if we all stop shopping at them, because they import a lot of their goods............ how many THOUSANDS of "American" workers are going to be unemployed?

And, if you wish to cease spending your dollars at Wal-Mart, because of their "import practices", then you will also have to stop any and all buying at; Home Depot, Costco, Bulder's City, Lowes, Staples, Home Office Supply, JC Pennys, Sears and Walgreen's.
(to name 9, on a list of several hundred, national chains).

Then, saw up your TFO fly rods and toss them out,along with most rods, that sell here for less than $200.00. Same with your reels and no doubt, the vest and/or, chest pack you're wearing.

If you tie flies, then, which "American made" hooks are you tying on?

Yeah, it's a real B**ch, true. But, it's also something we cannot really "escape", until we're ready to roll back the cost of living and be willing to work for $2.00 @ hour!?! Are YOU?
 
wal-mart "benefit package" is based on our tax dollars. they call full time 32 hrs. a week, therefore health coverage for these $7 an hour jobs comes from tax payers. they are unamerican. ford is built in a union shop stick with them, its as close as we have to american made. our toys from over seas contain lead they complain by stepping up QC it will bring up the cost of product, therefore we ought to manufacture them here.
whats so bad about buying a couple $20 toys made in america as opposed to 20 $1 throw away toys made inferrior.
i want to have some pride in made in america, we are not always right, but we can be better.
 
You are out of line with your obnoxious personal attacks.
 
pete41

i enjoy the art of fly fishing and have very much respect for our environment and i have found this web sight very invormative and helpful. apparantly i have very strong fealings on this particular subject. and i am soory for any offense to you as well as other members. i will stay off of this particular subject matter, and use this site for what it is intended.
 
flybinder wrote:
buy american, buy american, buy american. stop buying foriegn cars
(end quote) (And, "American" should be capitalized, out of respect!)

That said;
I own a FORD Ranger............ 90% of it's pre-assembly is done in JAPAN.
I also own a HONDA CRV, which was start, to finish, 100% built in TEXAS.
WHICH "American" car, would you like me to buy?

The ranger is fine, but i'm not sure what you were thinking with the CRV. I see your point flybinder, but unless things have changed drastically in the last couple years, I don't think your numbers are correct. None of them are 100 percent American made. In order to qualify as "American Made" (or "Domestic" depending on where you look), they must be assembled here and comprised of at least 75% US and Canadian parts. The Ranger made the list at 90% USA. Only the Ford Econoline has a higher number (95%), while your CRV didn't even make the list. Only 2 Hondas on the list and just barely (75%). Civic is 70%, therefore it is considered an import. The Impala is 92%, but is considered an import becasue it is assembled in Canada. I have owned 2 Rangers, and wouldn't have bought them if not for American Made.

Every vehicle that I have ever owned would have passed that test.

As a general rule, Ford is still the most American of all the notable Auto makers.


Big Daves really really long link :lol:


I used to have a link to look all of them up but i can't find it, so I did a quick search and found the above link that has quite a bit of it. I think the worse one of the American assembled Fords was the Focus which is only 40 percent American. And that is only looking at the ones that are assembled and sold here. It is built in several factories/countries.


Disclaimer: The link above seems to be a couple years old.

One more thing.

And, if you wish to cease spending your dollars at Wal-Mart, because of their "import practices", then you will also have to stop any and all buying at; Home Depot, Costco, Bulder's City, Lowes, Staples, Home Office Supply, JC Pennys, Sears and Walgreen's.
(to name 9, on a list of several hundred, national chains).

I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing For one thing, if more people changed their buying habits, it would force those stores to change their buying practices or close. Nobody is saying we should stop buying all together, just buy american when you can. the stores that sell American will benefit and as a result, jobs will be created for those jobs lost.

I went to a Home Depot a couple years ago to buy a reciprocating saw. The sales person tried his best to sell me a Hitachi. Afterall, it is what the Amish buy. I didn't care if it was cheaper (it was a few dollars less). He really ticked me off. the one time i actually got some service at a Home Depot, and he tried to steer me to something i didn't want. He actually tried to talk me out of buying the Milwaukee, which was made in USA. At least at the time it was.

P.S. I'm not a big fan of unions (sorry mnem. but i am entitled to that). I buy American only because i think it is the right thing to do. I obviously don't buy 100 percent american, but I do make a consious effort to try. Although I will on occasion buy foreign products where i have no choice, I refuse to support China's economy. If all I can find is made in China, I do without that item. and this has nothing to do with the recent bad publicity. That simply confirms it.
 
I enjoy everyones perspective. The board can recognize out of line posts.
 
Can anyone please tell me what the current patriotic shopping opinions, pro and anti union opinions, and personnal attack on flybinder have to do with the Michigan DNR issue that started this thread?
 
mediclimber wrote:
Can anyone please tell me what the current patriotic shopping opinions, pro and anti union opinions, and personnal attack on flybinder have to do with the Michigan DNR issue that started this thread?


Fair enough, but it seems to me that all the responses are related to what Pete41 said above, and it is definitely related to the original message.
 
Can't people agree to disagree without insults?
 
Sorry, had to go earn my keep taking someone to the hospital. FD, Not all the posts were related to Pete's post. I think one of the major problems is that all states are feeling the crunch of loosing sportsmen in general and the revenue that their licenses produce. It's been documented by many different state DERs that the number of hunters and fishers is dropping at an alarming rate. I had more to say but have decided it's not worth it. I really don't feel like getting into a financial or state of the union debate on a fly fishing website.
 
You are right, there was one that was not related. But i got three out of 4 right and that isn't bad since it was a rhetorical question anyway. No offense.
 
Yeah, three out of four ain't a bad average no matter what.
 
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/license-info_155468_7.pdf

This is the prices for their licenses. Compare it with ours. Regular license is $7 more than theirs, but when you figure the fee to fish for trout or salmon the difference is only $3 more.
 
A RANT

I've had a rotten day at work dealing with the village idiots and "children" playing doctor and nurse at a couple of the local hospitals and that's after reading and re-reading this thread.

You know what the problem is with society today? It's society itself. We want everything right now and the best that can be had for nothing. We want to pay minimal taxes for maximum local, state, and federal benefits. Something for nothing. We trust no one. A handshake or someone's word has no meaning anymore. Contracts must be drawn up by hordes of lawyers just so two parties can agree to eventually try to screw each other over all in the name of the all mighty dollar. People don't know how to do the simple basic things anymore like split wood, light a fire for warmth, can vegetables to lst through the winter. We want to make a million dollars digging a ditch and need a masters degree to do so. We want our children to speak seven different languages and graduated from colledge with a PHD by the age of 17. Kids are not allowed to be kids anymore for the most part. They go from school to some sort of extra carricular practice to some advanced learning camp and have no time to play in the mud and catch frogs and turtles anymore. We complain about how our nation is falling behind in quantity and quality craftsmanship, but we are the ones to blame. We went out and taught all the peoples in all the contries we defeated in whatever war or police action how to do our original jobs better than us and with less expensive materials. America is no longer a society of producers but a society of warehousers and consumers. Look at the steel industry. PA was number one back in the 50's and 60's. Now almost all the high quality steel comes from Japan. Why? Because we taught them how to make it better and cheaper. Look at oil. Discovered in PA, first major producers were PA, Texas, and Alaska. Now we rely heavily on the Middle East for something we already have. Manufacturing labor? We used to be the best in the world. No we farm it out to Mexico and elsewhere because they can do the same thing for pennies instead of dollars. I realized this today when I went to change a battery in the monitor/ defibrillater in my rig and noticed that the "world's best" is now made in Mexico but distributed from America. Kinda makes you think what you're really getting when you "Buy American"

Descending from my soapbox and awaiting the rebuttal :-o
 
I have been fishing and hunting here in PA. for almost sixty years now. Over the years the amount of fish and game has continued to decline to a point where it has become difficult to get the younger generation interested in these activities. I could support license fee increases if we were not continually getting less and less more and more money. I suspect michigan is having the same problem. How long are most of you going to do business with a company or store that keeps giving you less for more money. I am sure that if the quality and quantity were maintained most of us would not object to higher license fees. Remember the future of our sport depends on getting young people involved in it.
 
Dear paw-paw,

What do you mean you don't like paying more and getting less? Are you still buying gas? :-D

The price of fuel has played a much greater role in reducing my fishing than diminished fishing opportunities have.

It was nothing to make a day trip to State College or the Pocono's when it cost $ 10.00 or 12.00 but now that it costs closer to $ 40.00 I find myself saying to heck with it.

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
Tim
You missed my point. Gas may be $3.00 A gallon but I still Get a gallon. You can't say the same for the fish commission or the game commission. They have closed hatcheries and don't stock as many trout as they once did. The smallmouth bass in the susky are almost non existant. There are very few phesants or rabbits anymore not to mention the deer population. These are only a few examples why most have a hard time supporting fee increases. Fix these problems and you will have a lot of support and lots of young people comming into the sport.
 
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