Euro vs. Drop Shot Nymphing

[moon1284]

I'd agree with Ryan, but I'll take the other side. A 10' 4wt isn't ideal for dry flies (or streamers). If you mostly nymph and only switch to dries when you think you will catch more fish that way, get a 10' 4wt. If you fish dry or dry dropper and only nymph when you can't buy a bite get a 8-9' 5 or 6wt. If you want to add small streamers to the mix get a 8-9' 6wt.

The closest thing I do to nymphing is dry dropper so I have no interest in a 10' rod. I have a 7wt for streamers and have a bunch of different 5 and 6 weight rods from 7' to 9' I use for dry/dry dropper. I pick those mostly based on wind and somewhat on fly size. I prefer to fish with a 6 weight but will drop down to 4 or 5 weights if I am fishing flat water at short distances.

I am slowly moving towards shorter rods because I don't lose much distance casting, and its easier for me to land fish using shorter rods (I don't use a net unless I'm in a boat). I can cast well beyond normal fishing distance (70'+) with an 8' 5 or 6 weight, and I think fighting a fish is easier on a shorter rod.

Take this for what its worth, I go against the grain - I don't use disk drag reels for anything (including steelhead), and I fish the biggest steelhead water in the great lakes system regularly. I'm sure if I fished differently I'd catch more fish. I enjoy casting almost as much as I enjoy catching fish so the way I fish usually involves bigger water and longer, accurate casts. I don't get much enjoyment lobbing a bobber or a heavy nymph rig, or relying on a disk drag to control a fish. As far as nets, I feel I put less stress on a fish not using a net. If I took pics of fish, I would use a net.

 

[afishinado]

moon1284 wrote:
I'd agree with Ryan, but I'll take the other side. A 10' 4wt isn't ideal for dry flies (or streamers). If you mostly nymph and only switch to dries when you think you will catch more fish that way, get a 10' 4wt. If you fish dry or dry dropper and only nymph when you can't buy a bite get a 8-9' 5 or 6wt. If you want to add small streamers to the mix get a 8-9' 6wt.

The closest thing I do to nymphing is dry dropper so I have no interest in a 10' rod. I have a 7wt for streamers and have a bunch of different 5 and 6 weight rods from 7' to 9' I use for dry/dry dropper. I pick those mostly based on wind and somewhat on fly size. I prefer to fish with a 6 weight but will drop down to 4 or 5 weights if I am fishing flat water at short distances.

I am slowly moving towards shorter rods because I don't lose much distance casting, and its easier for me to land fish using shorter rods (I don't use a net unless I'm in a boat). I can cast well beyond normal fishing distance (70'+) with an 8' 5 or 6 weight, and I think fighting a fish is easier on a shorter rod.

Take this for what its worth, I go against the grain - I don't use disk drag reels for anything (including steelhead), and I fish the biggest steelhead water in the great lakes system regularly. I'm sure if I fished differently I'd catch more fish. I enjoy casting almost as much as I enjoy catching fish so the way I fish usually involves bigger water and longer, accurate casts. I don't get much enjoyment lobbing a bobber or a heavy nymph rig, or relying on a disk drag to control a fish. As far as nets, I feel I put less stress on a fish not using a net. If I took pics of fish, I would use a net.

I have every just about every length rod to choose from and I fish my 10' 4wt most often. In fact, almost exclusively for trout fishing except for the smallest of streams.

If you fish dries most of the time, than mending is important. A 10' rod allows you to mend longer distances and also makes roll casting easier.

I've never had any issues landing fish with a longer rod.

 

[NewSal]

moon1284 wrote:
I'd agree with Ryan, but I'll take the other side. A 10' 4wt isn't ideal for dry flies (or streamers). If you mostly nymph and only switch to dries when you think you will catch more fish that way, get a 10' 4wt. If you fish dry or dry dropper and only nymph when you can't buy a bite get a 8-9' 5 or 6wt. If you want to add small streamers to the mix get a 8-9' 6wt.

The closest thing I do to nymphing is dry dropper so I have no interest in a 10' rod. I have a 7wt for streamers and have a bunch of different 5 and 6 weight rods from 7' to 9' I use for dry/dry dropper. I pick those mostly based on wind and somewhat on fly size. I prefer to fish with a 6 weight but will drop down to 4 or 5 weights if I am fishing flat water at short distances.

I am slowly moving towards shorter rods because I don't lose much distance casting, and its easier for me to land fish using shorter rods (I don't use a net unless I'm in a boat). I can cast well beyond normal fishing distance (70'+) with an 8' 5 or 6 weight, and I think fighting a fish is easier on a shorter rod.

Take this for what its worth, I go against the grain - I don't use disk drag reels for anything (including steelhead), and I fish the biggest steelhead water in the great lakes system regularly. I'm sure if I fished differently I'd catch more fish. I enjoy casting almost as much as I enjoy catching fish so the way I fish usually involves bigger water and longer, accurate casts. I don't get much enjoyment lobbing a bobber or a heavy nymph rig, or relying on a disk drag to control a fish. As far as nets, I feel I put less stress on a fish not using a net. If I took pics of fish, I would use a net.

Im a big time fan of 10' and longer rods. The entire point isnt casting distance, but its line control, and having the reach to reach accross seams and currents, and longer rods make a huge difference when your talking about reach and line control during drifts. Ill have a 10'-6" 2wt rod in the quiver by next month

 

[ryansheehan]

As some have mentioned the line control advantages far outweigh any casting restrictions. That being said a good 10 foot 4 weight casts dry flies very nicely.

 

[PennKev]

ryansheehan wrote:
As some have mentioned the line control advantages far outweigh any casting restrictions. That being said a good 10 foot 4 weight casts dry flies very nicely.

Agreed. A 10' 4wt is not going to handicap the typical trout fisherman in any significant or perhaps even any noticable way. it will, however, help when nymphing which is what most anglers do most of the time anyway.

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

PennKev wrote:


The best advice is learn a variety of ways to rig and fish nymphs, learn to recognize when and where these methods are best used, and keep an open mind. Don't get too caught up in trends, think critically. Keep trying new things and find what works for you.

A lot of good advice by all. PK sums up the deal above ^.


I'm an Indy, tight-line, high-stick, dry-dropper, Czech, Spanish, French, Polish, drop-shot bounce nympher......

You missed one style of nymph fishing:

Fishing nymphs at short, medium and long distances with no strike indicator.

With a 7 1/2 ft Fenwick fiberglass rod!

That's the way I nymph fished when I started fly fishing, and it was commonly done at that time (the 1970s).

There were no strike indicators then. And this was before graphite rods. And fly rods of 7 and 7 1/2 ft were pretty standard.

Both indicators and graphite rods (which were made longer because graphite is a lighter material than glass) became popular in the 1980s.

I still nymph fish at short, medium and long distances without an indicator. (But the old Fenwick is long gone.)

If you've never tried fishing nymphs with 30 feet of line out and no strike indicator, try it. It's an interesting way of fishing.

 

[ryansheehan]

My first fly rods were 6-7.5 feet long but the nostalgia would quickly wear off. I wouldn't want to use those again anymore than I would want to wear those rubber waders again.

 

[cms829]

Can anyone actually give first hand experience or a specific reason aside from hypothetical opinions on WHY a 10' rod fishes dries with a disadvantage over a 9' rod? I see this everywhere online that the 10' rods are great for nymphing, but dont fish dries well...but no one actually gives a specific reason or personal experience. Just says one is better than the other.

I've only had my 10' 3 wt for a day now and only 3 hours on it, but was hoping I could use this as an all arounder up on the west/east branch and upstate. I cant physically wrap my head around why a 10' rod would be at a disadvantage fishing dries compared to a 8' or 9' rod.

Im not being a jerk - I really want to understand the down side.

 

[afishinado]

I fish my 10' 4wt for dries all the time. In fact the extra length casts and mends easier than a shorter rod.

 

[NewSal]

afishinado wrote:
I fish my 10' 4wt for dries all the time. In fact the extra length casts and mends easier than a shorter rod.

Same, I haven't touched my shorter rods sense using 10 footers. Can't find any downside to them, other then just watching the length when walking through brush, every other fishing application a 10 footer just works best for me, reach and line control.

Cant wait to try out a 10.5'

 

[cms829]

Thats kinda what I figured. Cant think of any downside, aside from fishing smaller creeks or walking through heavily wooded areas.

Seems like all the people who claim that 10' rods are anything but dry fly rods....are all the people who have never fished or dont own a 10' rod.

 

[SurfCowboyXX]

If you are going to be fishing big water with braided currents (Upper D), a 10' rod is so much better for mending and reach casts with dry flies. Because you can mend so much more line, you have a larger actual fishing range (a 9' rod can cast a dry 80 feet, but may only be able to mend 30 or 40 of those feet--a 10' rod can mend another 10 feet or so of line, so you can fish farther away from your body and have a longer drift).

 

[baileyoconnell]

I agree with the advantages of the longer rod being effective for dry fly fishing on the Upper D, however this river is no place for a 10 foot 3 or 4 weight....5 or 6 weights will be needed for the distance, especially with any wind at all.

 

[cms829]

People fish 2 wts on the upper D. I wouldnt say that its "no place" for 3 or 4 wts. I only use my 6 wt on the windiest of days, and most of the time - it doesnt make much of a difference.

 

[ryansheehan]

baileyoconnell wrote:
I agree with the advantages of the longer rod being effective for dry fly fishing on the Upper D, however this river is no place for a 10 foot 3 or 4 weight....5 or 6 weights will be needed for the distance, especially with any wind at all.

I've fished it plenty with my 10 foot 4 weight and there was no problem. The longer lever arm actually increases line speed over a shorter rod. The disadvantage is that it creates a more open loop, but if you can control your loop size you're golden. When fishing large dries with my 10 footer I have to tell myself to cast downhill.

 

[fritz]

Appreciate all the great information here. I might play around with the drop shot thing...my sister swears by it. I'm also going to try to stay with my KISS way of doing things and have fun.

 

[SurfCowboyXX]

Bailey, Ryan is correct-once you add that extra foot, a 4 weight can generate pretty much the same kind of line speed and just cut through the wind. If the wind is too high for my 10' 4 weight, it's probably too much for my 9.5' 6 weight as well.

 

[PennKev]

ryansheehan wrote:
The longer lever arm actually increases line speed over a shorter rod.

Technically speaking, you are at the wrong end of the lever so adding an extra foot to the other end makes it take more effort to create the same amount of line speed as with a shorter rod. (Your rod hand is the fulcrum). A longer rod will however pick up the line from the water quicker due to the longer length which may compensate for any small amount of extra effort needed.

However, with modern rods, an extra food, particularly in lighter trout line weights, is not going to make significant difference and the benefits of the extra length are noticed more than the slight amount of extra effort needed. On the other hand, try overhead casting a 10' 6" 7wt switch rod. MUCH harder than a single hand 9' 7wt.

 

[afishinado]

PennKev wrote:

ryansheehan wrote:
The longer lever arm actually increases line speed over a shorter rod.

Technically speaking, you are at the wrong end of the lever so adding an extra foot to the other end makes it take more effort to create the same amount of line speed as with a shorter rod. (Your rod hand is the fulcrum). A longer rod will however pick up the line from the water quicker due to the longer length which may compensate for any small amount of extra effort needed.

However, with modern rods, an extra food, particularly in lighter trout line weights, is not going to make significant difference and the benefits of the extra length are noticed more than the slight amount of extra effort needed. On the other hand, try overhead casting a 10' 6" 7wt switch rod. MUCH harder than a single hand 9' 7wt.

Very confusing subject.

True about the lever, but when moving from trout fishing to say saltwater and distance casting, one must learn to lengthen their casting stroke. Adding length to the rod increases that distance and makes casting a long line a little easier. But yes, it takes more effort to cast a long rod because of the added travel of the tip.

If you want to really work hard, try casting a 5' fly rod for any distance..lol. Theoretically, it should be easier. Like I said...very confusing subject.

The spey and switch thing is really confusing and I wish the industry would change the numbers since most FFers have weights for single hand rods etched in their mind. A 7wt switch rod is designed to cast a 380gr line (I used the Orvis chart for switch lines) while a 7wt single hand is designed to cast a 185g weight line. The switch rod is rated to cast a line twice as heavy as a SH rod.

I agree that a switch rod other than the very light one, like 3 or 4wts, are not designed for single hand casting.

 

[ryansheehan]

PennKev wrote:

ryansheehan wrote:
The longer lever arm actually increases line speed over a shorter rod.

Technically speaking, you are at the wrong end of the lever so adding an extra foot to the other end makes it take more effort to create the same amount of line speed as with a shorter rod. (Your rod hand is the fulcrum). A longer rod will however pick up the line from the water quicker due to the longer length which may compensate for any small amount of extra effort needed.

However, with modern rods, an extra food, particularly in lighter trout line weights, is not going to make significant difference and the benefits of the extra length are noticed more than the slight amount of extra effort needed. On the other hand, try overhead casting a 10' 6" 7wt switch rod. MUCH harder than a single hand 9' 7wt.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. The longer lever arm creates more swing speed at the rod tip. The further away from the fulcrum you are during the swing, the faster that point is going. Its true that as rods get longer swing weights do go up but like you said with modern day rods this is not much of an issue. Fun discussion, physics of swings wheather it's tennis, baseball or fly fishing fascinates me.