WV Brook Trout

[Wild_Trouter]

Enjoy!

 

[silverfox]

Awesome video! I like that Dustin mentions that the idea that brook trout are small throughout Appalachia is false. I know an 18-inch brook trout was confirmed via electrofishing last year (not in Pennsylvania).

It seems like they're making incredible progress in WV.

 

[wildtrout2]

Awesome video! I like that Dustin mentions that the idea that brook trout are small throughout Appalachia is false. I know an 18-inch brook trout was confirmed via electrofishing last year (not in Pennsylvania).

It seems like they're making incredible progress in WV.

That was an interesting comment he made. WV has it's act together!

I've done a lot of native brookie fishing over the years in Pa, my biggest being 13.5" back in 2009. When I'm fishing these streams and see some of the deep pools, especially the one's below some of the water falls, I'm all but convinced that they hold at least one in the 15"+ range. They're deep and tough to get down to, but I do believe they exist in some Pa streams.

 

[Swattie87]

They’re around in PA, to 15” or so anyway. Can’t say I’ve legitimately seen any high teens fish though.

One watershed in particular has produced a 15” fish (caught by another PAFF member), a 14.5” fish (caught by my neighbor), and a 13” caught by me. They have Browns knocking on their doorstep though. The chemical barrier that was keeping less acid tolerant species (like Browns) out is largely gone now…A good thing, as the main stem of the watershed was completely dead as recent as 35 years ago, but still.

I caught a 12” range football at the base of a waterfall a couple years ago too. Also from a watershed with acidity issues. Common thread probably.

 

[CRB]

They are around up here in the the northwest. You do have to be smart about the steam and the area.

 

[silverfox]

That was an interesting comment he made. WV has it's act together!

I've done a lot of native brookie fishing over the years in Pa, my biggest being 13.5" back in 2009. When I'm fishing these streams and see some of the deep pools, especially the one's below some of the water falls, I'm all but convinced that they hold at least one in the 15"+ range. They're deep and tough to get down to, but I do believe they exist in some Pa streams.

Something to look at sometime is when PFBC proposes new class A's, and they post exhibits in the minutes and agendas section of the website that have some interesting information. Primarily, they show the number of fish in each size class and of each species.

Example: https://www.fishandboat.com/AboutUs/MinutesAgendas/Documents/agendasDocs/2023-1-23-agd-exhF.pdf

I've been watching these for a long time, and I don't ever recall a brook trout larger than 13" being documented in any of these exhibits. That's not to say they don't exist, I just think if they were even remotely common, you'd see more of them in these survey results.

What I find "amusing" are the streams where brook trout are larger than the brown trout. Like the two from Potter Co. this round. The worst is where it's almost completely brown trout but they max out at 9 inches just like the brook trout do in the same stream. So we just exchanged one species of 8 inch fish for another.

 

[wildtrout2]

What's interesting, is that one stream yielded 2 brookies @11" and 2 @ 9" in a 300meter stretch. It makes me wonder what's upstream of the test section?

Also, I've always wondered if they ever shock any of the deep pools below the falls on any of the test streams that have falls? What's the max effective depth of a shocking?

 

[GANGGREEN]

Something to look at sometime is when PFBC proposes new class A's, and they post exhibits in the minutes and agendas section of the website that have some interesting information. Primarily, they show the number of fish in each size class and of each species.

Example: https://www.fishandboat.com/AboutUs/MinutesAgendas/Documents/agendasDocs/2023-1-23-agd-exhF.pdf

I've been watching these for a long time, and I don't ever recall a brook trout larger than 13" being documented in any of these exhibits. That's not to say they don't exist, I just think if they were even remotely common, you'd see more of them in these survey results.

What I find "amusing" are the streams where brook trout are larger than the brown trout. Like the two from Potter Co. this round. The worst is where it's almost completely brown trout but they max out at 9 inches just like the brook trout do in the same stream. So we just exchanged one species of 8 inch fish for another.

I was going to post the same thing. I've seen a lot of these reports and have been on more than a couple of class A brookie stream surveys myself and haven't seen any "big ones" yet, but who knows. I'm of the belief that 98% of the 13, 14 and 15" "native brookies" that guys talk about were/are either stocked fish or are figments of their imagination. I'm not calling out anyone in this thread, just making a general comment about the many, many reports I've had of giant brookies caught here or there.

 

[Swattie87]

The little 2 or 3 sq mile drainages, or smaller in many cases, in these Class A listing survey reports aren’t where the big ones are. Hint.

Double Hint…They’re migratory, in many cases.

Triple Hint…They’re in generally acidic water. Ideally too acidic for Browns to take hold.

This is one of the fish (caught by another PAFF member) I mentioned above. I don’t think anyone is questioning the origins of this fish…

Unicorn

Or this one…

 

[silverfox]

I was going to post the same thing. I've seen a lot of these reports and have been on more than a couple of class A brookie stream surveys myself and haven't seen any "big ones" yet, but who knows. I'm of the belief that 98% of the 13, 14 and 15" "native brookies" that guys talk about were/are either stocked fish or are figments of their imagination. I'm not calling out anyone in this thread, just making a general comment about the many, many reports I've had of giant brookies caught here or there.

Absolutely. I don't know how many times I've heard of these 12+ inch brook trout that are really 10-1/2 to 11 at best. 6 inches is 8, 8 is 10, 10 is 12, 11 is 14. The ol fisherman's measurements.

The thing that's always caused a problem in PA is all the brook trout stocking. That's changing, but you still see the posts with 14 inch "native" brook trout with half a tail and a nub for a pectoral fin.

 

[wildtrout2]

Big natives do exist in Pa, although very rare. I'm sure of this, because I saw a brookie several miles up an unstocked Potter county stream that I'm positive was no less than 16", and maybe a tad bigger. I saw this trout well enough/close enough that I could tell it was a female.

This was so long ago, probably 10 or so years, that I had actually forgotten about it.

 

[silverfox]

The little 2 or 3 sq mile drainages, or smaller in many cases, in these Class A listing survey reports aren’t where the big ones are. Hint.

Double Hint…They’re migratory.

Triple Hint…They’re in generally acidic water. Ideally too acidic for Browns to take hold.

This is one of the fish (caught by another PAFF member) I mentioned above. I don’t think anyone is questioning the origins of this fish…

Unicorn

Or this one…

View attachment 1641228499

Absolutely. Though, that 18 inch fish I mentioned above was from a small stream. Average about 10 to 15 feet wide. It's only a little over 4 miles long. Lots of deep plunge pools and undercuts though and it's rarely fished. All of the other criteria apply though.

Also, that 18 fish isn't so much of an anomaly for that stream. There are a lot of brook trout well over 12 there. Despite knowing that, I've yet to land one. I've had them on a few times but never sealed the deal. The moral of the story is that just because we don't catch them doesn't mean they aren't there.

 

[Swattie87]

Absolutely. Though, that 18 inch fish I mentioned above was from a small stream. Average about 10 to 15 feet wide. It's only a little over 4 miles long. Lots of deep plunge pools and undercuts though and it's rarely fished. All of the other criteria apply though.

Yeah. I think in a lot of the cases of Brookies growing bigger than a foot, access to larger water for at least part of the year is part of the formula. Though not always.

I’m certain I know of the watershed wt2 is referring to too, as he and I have discussed it before. (And ran into each other one time a couple miles back in there!) It’s not acidic, and has lots of Browns too, but it’s got excellent deep pool habitat and fish have unrestricted access to “bigger” water too. I’ve caught many 10-11” range fish from that watershed, though I’m not sure I’ve gotten one to 12”. I don’t doubt for a second they’re there though. But I wouldn’t call that a “small” system, by Brookie standards. Probably on the order of 20-25 sq miles.

 

[wildtrout2]

You do know it. It's actually surprising the number of nice size brookies in that stream. I always catch many more brooks than browns though. Higher water brings out those browns, big time.

 

[Swattie87]

You do know it. It's actually surprising the number of nice size brookies in that stream. I always catch many more brooks than browns though. Higher water brings out those browns, big time.

For sure. I’ve had days, after rain, where the catch rate is like 10:1 Browns. And in lower clearer conditions, you’d swear it was nothing but Brookies. Freestone Browns can be ghosts in low clear water.

My guess is the main stem is actually about 50/50, until you get pretty high up in watershed, then it’s mostly Brookies, but I’m talking up where it gets tiny.

 

[Fish Sticks]

My biggest in PA 14” based on measuring net hoop rim to discolored thread stitch holding the rubber net in place. The fish was lined up on those land marks as i rolled it over the straight sides of the net hoop just under surface of the water to release it. Then with a tape measure when i hiked back to the car later I measured the length spanning the aforementioned land marks.
got it on a mouse at night.

 

[GANGGREEN]

You're very fortunate and obviously you put in the effort to do it right for a big one. I live in Potter County and I've yet to see one of those real slobs, though I've seen a couple that I think probably pushed 12" (never caught one myself). Admittedly, I don't spend the time that I could or should pursuing them and I may have to make a more concerted effort this year to do so. But as I stated before, I've been on a lot of electroshocking surveys in some of these streams (including a couple that I'd think you MIGHT see a big one in) and I've yet to see anything like what gets talked about.

I think I've also seen on the PFBC website or somewhere that they claim that only .4% of the native Brookies in PA surpass 10 inches, so obviously if there ARE 12, 14 and 16" Brookies out there, they're like the proverbial blue moon.

My biggest in PA 14” based on measuring net hoop rim to discolored thread stitch holding the rubber net in place. The fish was lined up on those land marks as i rolled it over the straight sides of the net hoop just under surface of the water to release it. Then with a tape measure when i hiked back to the car later I measured the length spanning the aforementioned land marks.
got it on a mouse at night.

 

[jifigz]

My largest PA native is in the 10.5-11" range. It came from a small system that is not connected to a larger water system that would allow them to migrate.

I generally fish the same waters when I want a brook trout fix and I don't often spend a lot of time finding new waters or really searching for large fish. That might be a fun thing to explore in the future, though.

That video sure does have some pretty crick in it, though.

 

[sarce]

I caught a 17 in Big Spring 6 or 7 years ago and posted it here. I claimed it was a wild fish at the time but looking back I'm not absolutely certain. And that's an atypical stream in PA anyway.

Outside of that, I caught a 13" in the headwaters of a state college area limestoner shortly after a high water event caused by hurricane Sandy. That storm hit during the post spawn period and I am confident the fish in its weakened state washed out of a freestone trib which has produced multiple 11-12" brookies. It was mouthing small colorful leaves as they drifted by and could barely hold in the current, and was no challenge to catch. Surprisingly, I caught that fish again the following March about a mile downstream. It was fully healthy and had grown from 12.5 to 13.25". Apparently, once in the limestone environment, it had enough food to fully recover from being near death after the spawn+flood. It remains the only brook trout I ever caught in that stream, which I fished several dozen times.

To bring this back on track to the OP video, it's produced by a good friend of mine and we were talking about this episode a while ago. His mind was blown seeing the size of brookies that were caught that day. Not to mention the sheer size and depth of the water they can still be found in WV. Personally, I have landed several in WV that were 11-12", and laid eyes on slightly larger but have not connected. This was on streams with miles of public access. There are long stretches of some systems that are on private land with exceptional water quality which are most likely IMO to produce Dustin's 20" dream fish. The public streams see a lot of the best fish end up in campfire frying pans.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

For sure. I’ve had days, after rain, where the catch rate is like 10:1 Browns. And in lower clearer conditions, you’d swear it was nothing but Brookies. Freestone Browns can be ghosts in low clear water.

My guess is the main stem is actually about 50/50, until you get pretty high up in watershed, then it’s mostly Brookies, but I’m talking up where it gets tiny.

Yes, browns are ghosts in clear conditions. I can still recall the time I witnessed a 16 incher emerge from the back of a pool and move up the hole and disappear. Me and my fishing partner at the time were dumbfounded about where it went. The trickle entering the hole would have bee too small for it to wiggle its way up, not without creating a huge commotion at least. Incredible how well larger trout can hide.