Would you like to fish in 1897?

[KeviR]

Some years ago, a friend found this newspaper clipping in the Solebury Historical Society archives.
I believe it's from the Doylestown Intelligencer - April 16 1897

And this article was specifically about upper Bucks county - the most rural part of the county. It sounds like the habitat was already lousy - probably from clear-cutting (and then farming) right up to the banks of the creeks.
Caution - old guy rant incoming -
To jump on a high horse, even with very few people and I very crude fishing hardware compared to what we have now, they still could completely decimate the trout population of all the creeks in the county. This should demonstrate very clearly that the only way we can have sport fishing for trout is by either 100% catch and release, (and in fairness, better land stewardship) or a highly artificial put-and-take hatchery based approach. When you step back and think about the whole hatchery scheme, it's absurd. I mean, why not open the hatchery and let people fish there? It would save a lot of fuel and labor versus spreading the fish around and letting herons, otters, raccoons, etc, etc. take their toll. Not to mention the ones that just die on the way or die soon after getting dumped in the creek.
And don't tell me you want a "natural" experience - it's extremely unnatural to catch a fish that was bred for captivity, raised on ocean forage fish meal and factory farm corn and raised in concrete raceways by the millions before being trucked to all corners. And then promptly caught with (plastic?) power-bait, corn, gelatin "salmon" eggs or who knows what else, because the fish don't know what natural food looks like. And the rodeo starts when the bell rings at 8AM Saturday morning and there is a race to see who can catch their limit and get home first. If you're looking for a natural experience, that doesn't sound like a good prototype.

 

[Fish Sticks]

i think the best way to get it changed is to call our elected officials and get everyone else you can(mom dad son daughter brother sister) to tell them someone needs to stop the waste( hatchery program), fraud(telling public their hatchery fish are not harmful invasive species and that they don’t harm brook trout) and abuse(they happen to be the ones who are supposed to be educatIng the public on fisheries and invasive species and they only go after the ones that don’t sell licenses).

Ya gotta have an ask thats not vague and I think ours should be we need new commissioners who have training and recognize their responsibilities to be resource managers not trout rodeo clowns

 

[Fish Sticks]

I have spoken to mehaffie and disanto staffers and made this ask and will be one of a few sending a hand written letter to shapiro

 

[troutbert]

I think many streams in SE PA were hammered by 1797.

 

[redietz]

..., even with very few people and I very crude fishing hardware compared to what we have now, they still could completely decimate the trout population of all the creeks in the county

It's a misconception that fishing tackle of that time caught any fewer fish than today's tackle. You can clean out a stream just as effectively swinging three wet flies from a split cane rod with silk line and gut leaders as you can Euro nymphing or whatever else is the latest fad de jour.

 

[bdhoover77]

I regularly play golf with a set of hickory-shafted clubs from the early 1920s. I also use a set from the 1950s. So yes, I would use century-old fishing gear.

I guess that’s not really the point of this thread. But regardless, retro gear is great.

 

[TimMurphy]

Some years ago, a friend found this newspaper clipping in the Solebury Historical Society archives.
I believe it's from the Doylestown Intelligencer - April 16 1897

View attachment 1641228781

And this article was specifically about upper Bucks county - the most rural part of the county. It sounds like the habitat was already lousy - probably from clear-cutting (and then farming) right up to the banks of the creeks.
Caution - old guy rant incoming -
To jump on a high horse, even with very few people and I very crude fishing hardware compared to what we have now, they still could completely decimate the trout population of all the creeks in the county. This should demonstrate very clearly that the only way we can have sport fishing for trout is by either 100% catch and release, (and in fairness, better land stewardship) or a highly artificial put-and-take hatchery based approach. When you step back and think about the whole hatchery scheme, it's absurd. I mean, why not open the hatchery and let people fish there? It would save a lot of fuel and labor versus spreading the fish around and letting herons, otters, raccoons, etc, etc. take their toll. Not to mention the ones that just die on the way or die soon after getting dumped in the creek.
And don't tell me you want a "natural" experience - it's extremely unnatural to catch a fish that was bred for captivity, raised on ocean forage fish meal and factory farm corn and raised in concrete raceways by the millions before being trucked to all corners. And then promptly caught with (plastic?) power-bait, corn, gelatin "salmon" eggs or who knows what else, because the fish don't know what natural food looks like. And the rodeo starts when the bell rings at 8AM Saturday morning and there is a race to see who can catch their limit and get home first. If you're looking for a natural experience, that doesn't sound like a good prototype.

Dear Kevin,

Perhaps the habitat was lousy, but no one will convince me that the 2-legged predators weren't the biggest problem.

We've all seen the pictures from days of yore in NC PA with an 8-foot sapling stuffed with dozens of strung up trout proudly being displayed for a picture.

That attitude prevails today for many anglers. PA sportsmen in general are the most backwards sportsmen I've ever met, anywhere. They long for the days their Pap tells them about and forget that their Pap and his Pap made damned sure they would never see those days again. Hence the perceived need for stocking trucks.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[silverfox]

It's a misconception that fishing tackle of that time caught any fewer fish than today's tackle. You can clean out a stream just as effectively swinging three wet flies from a split cane rod with silk line and gut leaders as you can Euro nymphing or whatever else is the latest fad de jour.

Or net them by the wagonload with a simple woven net.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Dear Kevin,

Perhaps the habitat was lousy, but no one will convince me that the 2-legged predators weren't the biggest problem.

We've all seen the pictures from days of yore in NC PA with an 8-foot sapling stuffed with dozens of strung up trout proudly being displayed for a picture.

That attitude prevails today for many anglers. PA sportsmen in general are the most backwards sportsmen I've ever met, anywhere. They long for the days their Pap tells them about and forget that their Pap and his Pap made damned sure they would never see those days again. Hence the perceived need for stocking trucks.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

I whole heartedly agree with your statement about Pa anglers backwards mentality. I think a lot of it has to do with the culture as you mentioned but also zero attempt at intervention or education or glorifying true conservation by PFBC

 

[silverfox]

Dear Kevin,

Perhaps the habitat was lousy, but no one will convince me that the 2-legged predators weren't the biggest problem.

We've all seen the pictures from days of yore in NC PA with an 8-foot sapling stuffed with dozens of strung up trout proudly being displayed for a picture.

That attitude prevails today for many anglers. PA sportsmen in general are the most backwards sportsmen I've ever met, anywhere. They long for the days their Pap tells them about and forget that their Pap and his Pap made damned sure they would never see those days again. Hence the perceived need for stocking trucks.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

You got that right Tim!

I live in a very rural area in the mountains. I run into guys all the time today who brag about going out on the opening day, getting their limit, going home, and going back out another one or two times to limit out again. Or my neighbor in my childhood home who bragged about seine netting brookies by the bucketload to grind up into fish cakes.

 

[Mike]

Some years ago, a friend found this newspaper clipping in the Solebury Historical Society archives.
I believe it's from the Doylestown Intelligencer - April 16 1897

View attachment 1641228781

And this article was specifically about upper Bucks county - the most rural part of the county. It sounds like the habitat was already lousy - probably from clear-cutting (and then farming) right up to the banks of the creeks.
Caution - old guy rant incoming -
To jump on a high horse, even with very few people and I very crude fishing hardware compared to what we have now, they still could completely decimate the trout population of all the creeks in the county. This should demonstrate very clearly that the only way we can have sport fishing for trout is by either 100% catch and release, (and in fairness, better land stewardship) or a highly artificial put-and-take hatchery based approach. When you step back and think about the whole hatchery scheme, it's absurd. I mean, why not open the hatchery and let people fish there? It would save a lot of fuel and labor versus spreading the fish around and letting herons, otters, raccoons, etc, etc. take their toll. Not to mention the ones that just die on the way or die soon after getting dumped in the creek.
And don't tell me you want a "natural" experience - it's extremely unnatural to catch a fish that was bred for captivity, raised on ocean forage fish meal and factory farm corn and raised in concrete raceways by the millions before being trucked to all corners. And then promptly caught with (plastic?) power-bait, corn, gelatin "salmon" eggs or who knows what else, because the fish don't know what natural food looks like. And the rodeo starts when the bell rings at 8AM Saturday morning and there is a race to see who can catch their limit and get home first. If you're looking for a natural experience, that doesn't sound like a good prototype.

Thanks for the article. I found it to be quite interesting. I would respectfully suggest that there is no comparison between the intent of today’s put-and-take program and stocking described by the article. Stocking at that time was with fry and the sole purpose was fish population restoration with the idea that there would eventually be a reproducing fishery created. Clearly, the effort was misdirected in a lot of SE Pa streams that had already been degraded and/or had ongoing degradation by mills, agriculture, industry, and/or untreated sewage. Additionally, there were no effective fishing regulations, no creel limits, no size limits, and while traditional angling gear may have been crude by today’s standards, individuals did not limit themselves to traditional methods. Creative is the kind term that might be used in some cases. Furthermore, streams in eastern Pa were mill dammed to death, with pools above the dams on these low gradient streams often backing all of the way up to the next dam upstream. I have to hand it to the anglers mentioned in the article though in that they were aware of the impacts of warm stream temps on trout. Thank you again for the short but informative article.

One other comment about Upper Bucks streams (north of Doylestown) other than some of those in the limestone portion of the Cooks Ck basin and perhaps Paunacussing to the east, a number of the streams suffer now and most likely did then from very low flows for a critical portion of the year. The geology is just not conducive to good flows and the streams warm quite readily. It takes a relatively large drainage area to get a decent amount of stream flow in the late spring, summer and fall.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Yea the days of the “game pole” were dark ones for brook trout.

If you think about all the disturbances going on in their environment at the time with deforestation,AG, and mining, the fact that people used to put over one hundred on a game pole per day per angler for a season is horrific.

 

[TimMurphy]

I whole heartedly agree with your statement about Pa anglers backwards mentality. I think a lot of it has to do with the culture as you mentioned but also zero attempt at intervention or education or glorifying true conservation by PFBC

Dear Fish Sticks,

I kind of agree but need to add a little personal perspective here.

I grew up in the wilds of Lower Bucks County in the late 1960's and early '70's. Trout fishing to me was getting dropped off at Playwicki Park, not drowning, and then getting yelled at by mom for being a muddy, sloppy mess when she came back to pick me up.

Somehow with that as my experience I managed to figure out by the time I graduated HS in 1978 that there had to be more to trout fishing. Luckily, I matriculated to PSU, discovered fly fishing and have been a changed man ever since.

No one made me change, I elected to do it on my own. Steve and Dan at Flyfisher's Paradise were literally only a couple years older than me when I first met them. But they were wise beyond their years and shared many things with me during my time at Dear Old State. So maybe I did have some help?

But by and large I made the decision to not be a traditional fish hog on my own. Education can help, no doubt. But real change comes from inside. People need to look inside a bit, they might find something that surprises them.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[hooker-of-men]

 

[KeviR]

^ hilarious

 

[TimMurphy]

View attachment 1641228786

There was farmer had a dog and Bingo was his name-o. B-I-N-G-O, B-I-N-G-O, B-I-N-G-O and Bingo was his name-o. Man, I'm old ;-)

 

[KeviR]

Thanks for the article. I found it to be quite interesting. I would respectfully suggest that there is no comparison between the intent of today’s put-and-take program and stocking described by the article. Stocking at that time was with fry and the sole purpose was fish population restoration with the idea that there would eventually be a reproducing fishery created. Clearly, the effort was misdirected in a lot of SE Pa streams that had already been degraded and/or had ongoing degradation by mills, agriculture, industry, and/or untreated sewage. Additionally, there were no effective fishing regulations, no creel limits, no size limits, and while traditional angling gear may have been crude by today’s standards, individuals did not limit themselves to traditional methods. Creative is the kind term that might be used in some cases. Furthermore, streams in eastern Pa were mill dammed to death, with pools above the dams on these low gradient streams often backing all of the way up to the next dam upstream. I have to hand it to the anglers mentioned in the article though in that they were aware of the impacts of warm stream temps on trout. Thank you again for the short but informative article.

One other comment about Upper Bucks streams (north of Doylestown) other than some of those in the limestone portion of the Cooks Ck basin and perhaps Paunacussing to the east, a number of the streams suffer now and most likely did then from very low flows for a critical portion of the year. The geology is just not conducive to good flows and the streams warm quite readily. It takes a relatively large drainage area to get a decent amount of stream flow in the late spring, summer and fall.

Yes, I wasn't referring to the stocking mentioned in the article. It's interesting that they were trying to re-introduce trout to re-create a viable population. Between that and their observation about stream temps and habitat, it seems like they understood the roots of the problem. Here's an article about a fish hatchery established at Aquetong (also referred to as Ingham) Spring. These folks clearly knew something about fish biology and husbandry. But they also thought that the solution to overharvest and poor habitat was more man-made intervention.

60-70,000 trout and 4,000 salmon and next week, 100,000 shad !
For our TU chapter's perspective, the most interesting tidbit was that the breed stock trout came from the spring.
On the property, you can still see the remains of rearing pools below the spring. We're not sure if these were from the T&T operation, but to me it seems they likely are.

 

[Mike]

Year 1871!!
Still another interesting article. Culturing wild ST and the earliest account that I have ever heard of culturing what were most likely American Shad. Salmon too!

 

[troutbert]

It's interesting that this early hatchery was created by a local association, not the government.

Recently the Valley Forge TU chapter had a presentation about the history of trout fisheries in Rocky Mountain Park in Colorado. And it was a similar scenario. It was getting way over-fished, including by market fishermen. And the response was that local people formed a group and started a hatchery. It wasn't originally a government hatchery.

 

[silverfox]

One note on early references to "Salmon" is that walleye were commonly referred to as jack salmon round these parts. There's a named hole on the river near me called the "Salmon hole" but it's because of river walleye, not actual salmon.