Waters with the Biggest Potential

[falsecasts]

In your opinion, what stream/river has the biggest potential to become an amazing fishery in PA? I feel like there are so many waters in the commonwealth that have the potential to provide fantastic fishing, yet are held back by a key issue such as pollution, difficult access, high temps, etc.

Some waters that come to my mind:

• The Lehigh: probably the most popular answer. It nearly has everything: plentiful public access, a wilderness setting, and big wild trout. Fixing the FEW dam to provide year-round cold water could make the Lehigh into a big destination fishery, perhaps rivaling the upper D.
• Moshannon Creek: like the Lehigh, it runs through a beautiful, wilderness setting. Finally cleaning up AMD in the red Mo could potentially make this a fantastic stream for trout/SMB, but could also significantly improve the West Branch of the Susquehanna as well.

Curious to see what other streams come to mind… for instance I know of a few small SEPA limestoners that could be potential amazing Brook trout fisheries that are held back by pollution/watershed mismanagement.

 

[stecal]

Moshannon Creek is #1 for me. A few hundred yards from my grandmother's house in Munson. Everytime I drive over the bridge I sigh at the loss. She remembered in the 1930-40's when it ran clean and full of fish, so the damage is pretty recent from strip mines. It runs so yellow that i cannot imagine that it will ever be clean in my lifetime. Maybe for future generations....

 

[Fish Sticks]

From a potential physical/ water chemistry turn around stand point Moshannon is number one for me as well. While acidity has ensured no life in a-lot of it from what I have heard(never had the pleasure of seeing it yet), your starting without a rip roaring brown trout infestation for the most part and as it gets cleaner there will likely be a point where its more suitable for native brook trout than brown trout due to lingering acidity is my guess. Silverfox can correct me on any of the above he is boots on the ground in a big way there right now from a conservation perspective.

 

[Fish Sticks]

In your opinion, what stream/river has the biggest potential to become an amazing fishery in PA? I feel like there are so many waters in the commonwealth that have the potential to provide fantastic fishing, yet are held back by a key issue such as pollution, difficult access, high temps, etc.

Some waters that come to my mind:

• The Lehigh: probably the most popular answer. It nearly has everything: plentiful public access, a wilderness setting, and big wild trout. Fixing the FEW dam to provide year-round cold water could make the Lehigh into a big destination fishery, perhaps rivaling the upper D.
• Moshannon Creek: like the Lehigh, it runs through a beautiful, wilderness setting. Finally cleaning up AMD in the red Mo could potentially make this a fantastic stream for trout/SMB, but could also significantly improve the West Branch of the Susquehanna as well.

Curious to see what other streams come to mind… for instance I know of a few small SEPA limestoners that could be potential amazing Brook trout fisheries that are held back by pollution/watershed mismanagement.

From a conservation potential stand point: Litiz run, letort, big fishing creek, penns creek, spring creek, little J/spruce creek, honey creek, Tea creek, falling springs, big spring, mountain creek(below dam), upper yellow breeches, and many more.

Some of these are in good shape from a physical/chemical standpoint point some aren’t. I’m speaking more to the biological impairments so often overlooked out of Bias.

Alot of the above probably have potential to sustain native brook trout if it weren’t for one or more invasive trout species.(either mainstem 3 seasons a year or year round)(some already hold brook trout but would likely expand without the invasive competitors)

 

[troutbert]

Moshannon Creek is #1 for me. A few hundred yards from my grandmother's house in Munson. Everytime I drive over the bridge I sigh at the loss. She remembered in the 1930-40's when it ran clean and full of fish, so the damage is pretty recent from strip mines. It runs so yellow that i cannot imagine that it will ever be clean in my lifetime. Maybe for future generations....

What kind of fish were there in the 1930s and 1940s?

 

[klingy]

I’ve always thought mosquito creek had great potential. Some good work has been done, but still a ways to go to bring it back.

 

[Fish Sticks]

There are alot of spring creeks in the valley that has beaver springs in it(over the ridge from penns). Its Ag heavy and I have always wondered how many mill dams historically are over there because could be a bunch of springs not functioning that great that could be improved with legacy sediment removal possibly.

 

[troutbert]

I’ve always thought mosquito creek had great potential. Some good work has been done, but still a ways to go to bring it back.

A sportsmans club is stocking both Mosquito Creek and Gifford Run, a major tributary. That is the main problem there. Both streams hold native brook trout. But the stocking of hatchery trout is limiting their population.

Simply ending stocking of both streams would really benefit the brookie population.

They began liming on Gifford Run, and the headwaters of Mosquito Creek. But there were brook trout in both streams before the liming began. The native brookies did not need the liming.

After the liming began, the club began stocking hatchery trout. And the native brookie population went downhill.

A similar thing happened on upper Bowmans Creek, up in the State Gamelands.

 

[CRB]

Allegheny River below the dam, a bottom release and it would be great down almost to oil city.

 

[rustbeltwilds]

freeman run

 

[krayfish2]

Below raystown with the failed tail water initiative. A complete shame

 

[Fish Sticks]

Green spring could be a nice native brook trout re introduction project if they shut down the hatchery and did restoration where its dammed the springs up into a bunch concrete raceways baking in the sun. Wonder if that private hatchery is even close to in compliance with its effluent. Would not surprise me if there were brookies in bullshead branch but its all private land. I drove by the upper day and its full of flowing cress. Combination of shutting down that nasty hatchery, Ag BMP’s, and some wetland creation with legacy sediment style removal techniques if it’s suitable, which it looks to be(walked that too) would probably be a huge ecological lift for that place. Legacy sediment removal can make your springs pump more water and decrease average stream temps according to the DEP, TNC,LS and other partners with experience that I’ve worked with.

Would need about 4-6 people most likley to get something serious going. Id love to see more people doing what I and others are doing on the hammer creek. These spring creeks were once a common life history strategy for native brook trout.

Anyone with a spring creek near them who wants to restore it for native brook trout can PM me. These spring creeks are everywhere in south central/south eastern PA but their often just burried 5-10 feet under/a couple centuries worth of the effects of deforestation, Ag, or mill dams. When you excavate and daylight them the springs function much better in alot of them apparently.

For anyone interested I can set you up with people who can potentially write the grants for you, restoration specialists experienced in restoring spring creeks with legacy sediment removal where indicated. I can also help you personally build a watershed group, provide free resources/technical support thats out there, and help you draft a Memorandum of understanding for your effort as far as what partners you want to bring on and who is responsible for what.


SOOO many orgs/ agencies can help you and do things like write grants, survey and prescribe stream improvements, and much more. This stuff takes time but not like a full time job you can go slow at a pace that works for you and families. If there are geographic pods of people who want to team up and learn how to put these operations together let me know………..more and more money out there these days to do this stuff

 

[Fish Sticks]

Does not have to be a spring creek either obviously

 

[dryflyguy]

Allegheny River below Kinzua Dam sticks out for me too.

They're currently trying to manage it for both cold and warm water fish.
And releasing water from various levels.

For trout, its OK for a few months - thru late June.
By July, water temps are usually over 70 through the rest of the summer.

If it were bottom release only, it could be pretty amazing IMO

 

[stecal]

What kind of fish were there in the 1930s and 1940s?

Brook, probably Browns. My Great grandfather & great uncles all fished it back then.

I have been told that there are places along Red Moshannon creek where people have caught fish recently - probably where natural springs or tributaries run into it.

 

[Tigereye]

+1 for lehigh.

A flow reevaluation study was supposed to be conducted on the Lehigh. I believe it was halted due to covid and political pressures.

I know there was a lot of quibbling on any changes. NYC was footing half the bill for the study. It raised alot of hackles even thought their spokesperson said in writing their interest was solely to take strain off their 2 dams which are controlling saltwater infringement up the lower delaware, not as a drinking water supply.

Yes the Lehigh would be a great fishery but is currently managed to be a great rafting river. Water rights in PA getting to be as bad as western US.

 

[just_jon]

+1 from Green Spring.

 

[RLeep2]

I don't necessarily enjoy being the party pooper, but I would actively oppose any effort to convert Kinzua into a bottom release. So far as I am concerned, the dam itself is sufficient insult to the river and no additional tinkering is warranted or desirable. If there has to be a dam there (and I realize that in practical terms there probably does..), I think the fishery as it presently exists is a good compromise between CW. Cool water and WW.

Speaking more positively, my years spent fishing in the Upper Midwest and the public/private partnerships that have created what are probably the best small stream wild trout fisheries east of the Rockies in that region makes me wish that something similar could be done with many of the small limestones, particularly those in SC PA. It wouldn't matter to me by species where the focus of such efforts turned out to be. I would probably prefer it be on browns, but that's just me..

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

I hear the AMD remediation on the West Branch of the Susquehanna is resulting in some decent trout in the upper reaches of that river.

 

[McSneek]

Youghiogheny