Upstream nymphing without an indicator

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bdhoover77

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I am not particulally interested in euro or tightline nymphing (despite its effectiveness), particularly the mono rig, because right or wrong it seems too much like bait fishing to me. I also am not interested in using a strike indicator because of the extra weight and difficulty casting. I’ve been experimenting with upstream nymphing using my fly line and a piece of high-visibility nylon as an indicator. So I suppose it’s not, strictly speaking, nymph fishing without an indicator.

What I like about it is that it seems more like “traditional” fly fishing than euro nymphing. I’m actually casting nymphs and wet flies with fly line rather than a long mono leader and keeping the fly line on the reel.

I’m not above trying any method of fishing depending on conditions. So I will still use the tightline method and strike indicators. But I wonder if others are using this upstream nymphing method and if you have any suggestions/tips/etc.?
 
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bdhoover77 said:
I am not particulally interested in euro or tightline nymphing (despite its effectiveness), particularly the mono rig, because right or wrong it seems too much like bait fishing to me. I also am not interested in using a strike indicator because of the extra weight and difficulty casting. I’ve been experimenting with upstream nymphing using my fly line and a piece of high-visibility nylon as an indicator. So I suppose it’s not, strictly speaking, nymph fishing without an indicator.

What I like about it is that it seems more like “traditional” fly fishing than euro nymphing. I’m actually casting nymphs and wet flies with fly line rather than a long mono leader and keeping the fly line on the reel.

I’m not above trying any method of fishing depending on conditions. So I will still use the tightline method and strike indicators. But I wonder if others are using this upstream nymphing method and if you have any suggestions/tips/etc.?
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I used to nymph that way often and still will at times, but I'm generally employing a yarn Indy if casting upstream.

I always watched my fly line as the indicator. It works well this time of year.
 
The old school technique I learned long ago was to cast upstream (do a tuck cast to get the nymphs to sink) and move rod/ line to keep a constant sag or catenary in the fly line between the water and the rod tip (no mono rigs here). When the sag starts to tighten set the hook. Use the sag in the fly line as the indicator. Of course, with a catenary in the line there will be a downstream tension on the fly so not perfect dead drift. But it works.

For across stream use the leader/line connection as an indicator. Cast up and across a distance ahead of the lie depending on how deep you want to fish. Keep some slack in the line on the water and mend, mend, mend until the line connection starts to skate across the water - then you have lost the dead drift. If the line connection moves in a different way set the hook. Some people used colored thread on the connection or yarn to help see it.
 
Probably a controversial opinion but theres really no good reason to do this type of upstream nymph fishing without using the best tool for the job (a long leader or mono rig- which itself is just a very long leader). I’ve never had anyone look at me as any less of a fly fisherman because I used one and if they had I probably didn’t notice or care because I was too busy catching fish. If you want to switch to a more conventional delivery due to increased surface activity, you cut it off, spool it and tie on a traditional leader which takes like 2 minutes.

Most of the methods presented above are just crappier versions of what you’re doing with a long leader because the weight of the fly line pulls back on the nymphs creating drag that goes undetected due to the underwater presentation. You miss a lot of fish, get rejected by a lot of fish and ultimately have difficulty remaining in contact with your flies unless you’re using like 50 split shots. You might hook one here or there, but I’ll bet I hook 12 in the same water (I’ve tried it both ways so I’m not trying to be ****y)

There are certainly people who fish nymphs using more traditional tandem rigs. Scott from PA woods n water is a good example, and clearly it works well for him- his delivery is almost more like swinging an array of wet flies- so I encourage you to check out the way he rigs things. However, I suspect he’s been doing it a long time that way and there are still probably situations (very fast pocket water for one) where he would be at a disadvantage. Plus he still needs to rig it that way, which takes the same amount of time as putting on and taking off a mono rig or euro leader.

For those that insist upon being a purist sticking to dry dropper fishing or perhaps looking into a Dorsey indicator is probably the safest way to avoid the derisive scowls of the Izaak Walton league old dears. These are the methods that look most like *real* fly fishing and actually work well without any line or leader adjustments. But for the rest of us, a tight line contact rig wins out for upstream dead drift fishing over pressured trout. And enough people are using them now that you’re at a decided disadvantage if you don’t at least know how to fish one since the fish in the famous rivers are seeing more perfect dead drifts than ever before. Its ultimately no different than going onto a fight with a hand tied behind your back.
 
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I don’t have any problem with tightline nymphing. I just don’t enjoy it as much as other forms of fly fishing. It’s not about being a “purist” or anything like that. I just don’t like casting a mono rig or a leader long enough that the fly line stays on the reel.
 
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for whats it worth, im only using strike indicators in the winter when the river is generally more full then other months and im nymphing deep runs or pools. that said, i use the largest air filled indicator they sell(no not a balloon). it slows my drift down, keeping my flys low and slow and in the strike zone longer. after a few snags i adjust the indicator to where my flys are just barely off the bottom. i do pretty well fishing this way in the winter months.
 
bdhoover77 said:
I don’t have any problem with tightline nymphing. I just don’t enjoy it as much as other forms of fly fishing. It’s not about being a “purist” or anything like that. I just don’t like casting a mono rig or a leader long enough that the fly line stays on the reel.
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Maybe try the FIPS competition line for an in-between compromise. They even sell a shortie, maybe Rio, you can loop to loop on your WF line. I prefer a mono leader for what you are describing, and I agree it is probably the best tool for that type of nymphing. However, the competition line has the feel of a thinner fly line and can be cast relatively well, floated (treated to float even more), throw a dry with, etc. Of course, you can throw a dry dropper with a well-built mono leader too, and I have plenty of times, so I did not use the comp line for very long after maybe a season experimenting. I have a buddy who still uses it over a mono rig though.

Also, ignore that he throws three bugs, including a glow bug at almost all times (!), but watch PA Woods and Water to see how someone very effectively does what Jeff K is talking about above. A younger dude, SC Outdoors does the old school nymphing technique too, though he misses far more fish. Granted he's not throwing three bugs and getting one in the anal fin or worse once in a while....
 
bdhoover77 said:
I am not particulally interested in euro or tightline nymphing (despite its effectiveness), particularly the mono rig, because right or wrong it seems too much like bait fishing to me. I also am not interested in using a strike indicator because of the extra weight and difficulty casting. I’ve been experimenting with upstream nymphing using my fly line and a piece of high-visibility nylon as an indicator. So I suppose it’s not, strictly speaking, nymph fishing without an indicator.

What I like about it is that it seems more like “traditional” fly fishing than euro nymphing. I’m actually casting nymphs and wet flies with fly line rather than a long mono leader and keeping the fly line on the reel.

I’m not above trying any method of fishing depending on conditions. So I will still use the tightline method and strike indicators. But I wonder if others are using this upstream nymphing method and if you have any suggestions/tips/etc.?
Click to expand...
Never use an indicator. Watch the end of my flyline and when it hesitates, set the hook.
It is either hitting something on the way or fish strike. Does not matter what time of year or
body of water.
 
NbTurk said:
Never use an indicator. Watch the end of my flyline and when it hesitates, set the hook.
It is either hitting something on the way or fish strike. Does not matter what time of year or
body of water.
Click to expand...
You're nuts. I love a little bobber fishin'.
 
I didn't think I would like euro/tighlining either until I was gifted a 10' 3wt setup. It took me a little while to get used to casting it where I wanted it to go but the touch and control under the water is great. I'm not proficient at mending yet so it's a bit hard for me to use an indicator especially at a distance where there are several lanes with different flow.
 
mdamm318 said:
I didn't think I would like euro/tighlining either until I was gifted a 10' 3wt setup. It took me a little while to get used to casting it where I wanted it to go but the touch and control under the water is great. I'm not proficient at mending yet so it's a bit hard for me to use an indicator especially at a distance where there are several lanes with different flow.
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The only "beef" I have with the "euro" setup is this: I have met people that are dedicated Euro-Nymphers that cannot fly fish any other way. They cannot cast a fly rod in the traditional sense which means their adaptability is very limited.

I support people fishing how they wanna fish, but being able to adapt, change, and employ a great number of different tactics is very important to being a well rounded fisherman.
 
jifigz said:
The only "beef" I have with the "euro" setup is this: I have met people that are dedicated Euro-Nymphers that cannot fly fish any other way. They cannot cast a fly rod in the traditional sense which means their adaptability is very limited.

I support people fishing how they wanna fish, but being able to adapt, change, and employ a great number of different tactics is very important to being a well rounded fisherman.
Click to expand...
I agree with all of that. I'm kind of a streamer junkie and like casting conventionally. I think it helps to learn that first. Lately I've been packing 2 reels and switching out to fit the conditions.
 
Kyle said:
for whats it worth, im only using strike indicators in the winter when the river is generally more full then other months and im nymphing deep runs or pools. that said, i use the largest air filled indicator they sell(no not a balloon). it slows my drift down, keeping my flys low and slow and in the strike zone longer. after a few snags i adjust the indicator to where my flys are just barely off the bottom. i do pretty well fishing this way in the winter months.
Click to expand...
That's how I nymph all the time.
 
I started flyfishing when indicators didn't exist, so everyone fished without them. And still do the "old school" nymphing. I never use an indicator. I tried them but didn't like them.

I fish nymphs straight upstream sometimes, especially on small streams. I fish Sinking Inchworms that way when the inchworms are around. I think of that as terrestrial fishing, but some people may think of it as nymphing.

On medium and larger streams I usually cast up and across, then extend the drift down past me as far as I can maintain a good drift.
 
bdhoover77 said:
At the risk of sounding foolish, what is the trick to knowing when a fish has taken a wet fly fished upstream?
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When you're fishing them in the film, it's easy. Just look for the rise. If you're fishing a few inches down and straight upstream, it more like tightline nymphing, you keep tight to the fly without dragging. If you're fishing up and across, watch the first curve in the line. If it straightens, set the hook.
 
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