salmo
Well-known member
This may have been asked before, but can I use 6 lb. test good quality fluorocarbon fishing line for Euro Nymphing?
Six Pound Test Fluorocarbon
- Thread starter salmo
- Start date
I've only been fly fishing for 2 years and have little experience Euro nymphing. However, I quickly discovered 4# Berkley Vanish flourocarbon works very well for tippet material, droppers, etc. I don't see why it wouldn't work for tight line nymphing.
Nymph-wristed
Well-known member
Absolutely, but I would go with 4lb for most applications. Save the 6 for jigged buggers and stoneflies, etc. unless the diameter is comparable to 5X. The small spools are really only a convenience not a mark of some better quality in most cases. Trouthunter tippet offers half sizes, so there are some more choices in tippet over larger spools... maybe.
Equally important with brands, however, check diameters more than pound test 👍
Equally important with brands, however, check diameters more than pound test 👍
salmo
Well-known member
What is the best brand for invisibility and lack of memory?
Bamboozle
Well-known member
As has already been mentioned the correlation between the diameters & breaking strength of fluorocarbon fishing line and fly fishing tippet material are different. In all cases tippet material whether it is Nylon or fluorocarbon is stronger for a given diameter.
For example:
However...
IF you want to save some money, seek out sources of Japanese fishing line (there are many both in the US and in the Japanese Domestic Market or JDM).
Fishing line in Japan is MUCH thinner for a given strength and much, much truer to the stated size (what it is labeled as) versus American fishing line but they have a completely different sizing system, the "Gou" system.
For example:
The reason why our US brands of fly fishing tippet material are always thinner for a stated breaking strength than our US brands of fishing line is our tippet material is all made in Japan by Japanese line manufacturers to THEIR standards. 😵
Something to think about if you aren't in love with the fancy spools you get with tippet material... 😉
For example:
- 6lb fluorocarbon fishing line measures about .010".
- 6lb test fluorocarbon tippet material comes in around between .007" or .008".
However...
IF you want to save some money, seek out sources of Japanese fishing line (there are many both in the US and in the Japanese Domestic Market or JDM).
Fishing line in Japan is MUCH thinner for a given strength and much, much truer to the stated size (what it is labeled as) versus American fishing line but they have a completely different sizing system, the "Gou" system.
For example:
- A size 1.5 Japanese fishing line that has a breaking strength of 6lbs measures .0081".
- A size 2.5 Japanese fishing line which is two sizes larger at .0098" has a breaking strength of 10lbs but is still thinner than made in the USA 6lb fluorocarbon fishing line.
The reason why our US brands of fly fishing tippet material are always thinner for a stated breaking strength than our US brands of fishing line is our tippet material is all made in Japan by Japanese line manufacturers to THEIR standards. 😵
Something to think about if you aren't in love with the fancy spools you get with tippet material... 😉
pcray1231
Well-known member
The truth isn't in materials as much as tolerances. That 6 lb fluorocarbon fishing line that says 0.010 on the box is probably anywhere between 0.007 and 0.013, depending where you measure, not just along the line but also roundness. The thinnest areas being about 6 lb, and that's what they're guaranteeing, but other sections will test like 12 lb breaking strength. And some just mislabel it to a degree for marketing purposes as well. "Our 6 lb test" is the strongest... Yeah, because it's actually 10 lb test, lol.
The tippet is the same stuff, just more consistent in diameter, tighter tolerances on the tippet, which leads to smaller batches and more money. Larger tolerances are to make bigger batches and keep price low.
I have never been sold on the supposed invisibility of flouro. With multiple aquarium tests and holding a physics degree! That said, the density difference, lack of stretch, and abrasion resistance is real, so it has it's place.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Buy some Japanese fishing line rated in the Gou system and get out your micrometer...
...you will be shocked by the consistency in the diameter over its length which is why the Japanese size fishing line by diameter, NOT pound test. That's also the reason tippet material is so consistant, it's all made in Japan...
I'd also venture to guess that the Seaguar Red Label recommended by Beernut is equally consistent as it is made in Japan.
As far as fluorocarbon's invisibility in water; until somebody figures out how to pop fish eyes in their head it's something that can't truly can't be determined.
I use it because it doesn't flat spot when drawn up in a knot or get curly cues if it gets wrapped around a tree branch and it is typically stronger for the same diameter versus Nylon and has a longer shelf life.
FWIW - The fish don't seem to give a rat's arse what I use... 😉
I don't sweat the cost because even at around $ .50 a meter, it is FAR from the most expensive thing I consume on a fishing trip...
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pcray1231
Well-known member
I've played around with it in my fish tank, lol. I see no difference, I can see em both just fine, though I can't speak for fish eyesight. I've done the physics, yeah, the index of refraction is slightly closer to water, but it's not all that different and I don't really think index of refraction is what's driving visibility under water anyway. And if you wanna go there, nylon is closer to air, yet I haven't seen anyone suggest nylon is less visible in air! And if it's on the surface.... nylon might actually mute the sharp water/air boundary a bit, lol. Plus it floats higher, so if less nylon is in the water, it looks finer diameter?
I just think the visibility thing is complete B.S. really.
The flat spotting, lack of curly cues, strength/diameter, and shelf life are real things though, and I get and have no issue with your reasoning. Nylon (at least in copolymer form like most "mono's") is less dense, cheaper, biodegrades, and is more supple (so in theory, less drag, are fish line shy or drag shy?). And I seem to be able to tie knots better with it because it's not as slick. Everything's got it's advantages and disadvantages.
Nymph-wristed
Well-known member
I have used the higher end Seagar and PLine products, mostly because I have used them for other fishing needs and have them around.
PennKev
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,476
Same here. The Seaguar Blue Label lines offer better strength/diameter but the 4lb and 6lb PLine offers good bang for the buck. More importantly, it's easier to get strong knots with both than with some other brands.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Another thing, I like my tippet on dry flies to be NOT be floating on the surface.
I have a theory (that once again would benefit from fish eyes 😉) that a floating tippet looks a like a slash through the mirrored surface of the water if viewed from below versus one drifting an inch or so below. In my delusional world that slash is more objectionable to fish than no slash although no fish has ever told me it bothers them particularly...
To that end I use real mud, leader sinking stuff sold as Mud or Xink to get my tippet to sink. This is another reason I like fluorocarbon because it IS easier to get it to sink and before anyone mentions it, that doesn't "pull" my fry flies under.
Fluorocarbon is also denser so it straightens out better on casts. If you ever cast a Tenkara rod with a level fluorocarbon line (which is just plain fishing line) and then used the same size & length line in mono you would get what I am talking about.
As far as suppleness versus Nylon; fluorocarbon tippet material has got more supple over the years but I doubt it is supple as Nylon. However that isn't a big enough issue for me to deal with what I don't like about mono because I can work around that lack of suppleness with leader or casting tweaks.
As always YMMV...
KeviR
Active member
Let me preface this by saying I'm a knot nut. The problem I had with fluoro the last time I tried it (which was several years ago) is that I could not find a knot that had high and consistent breaking strength. To me, consistency is just as important as overall strength, because I want to know how much pressure I can put on a fish - every time. Though breaking strength close to 100% is important, too. What's the point of having lower visibility/better durability/higher sink rate if you have to go 2X thicker to be confident you're getting the same breaking strength from the knots? That's how much difference I felt I could get from using copolymer mono. (I use Stroft GTM). The problem was even worse tying fluoro to nylon, though that wouldn't be as much of an issue now that I use tippet rings. So for those of you that use fluoro, can you recommend a knot for fluoro that will provide close to 100% strength and high consistency?
As an answer to the OP, I did use fluoro for a while and I am a dedicated contact/euro nympher, so I definitely saw its benefits when I tried it. (Way more abrasion resistant, sinks faster.)
As an answer to the OP, I did use fluoro for a while and I am a dedicated contact/euro nympher, so I definitely saw its benefits when I tried it. (Way more abrasion resistant, sinks faster.)
Bamboozle
Well-known member
I only use one knot fly fishing, a single clinch knot and that includes blood knots that are nothing but two clinch knots back to back and I have zero problems with knots using fluorocarbon.
In the days when I tied mono to fluoro I had no issues so I suspect in your case it was more about the brand of fluorocarbon than the knot.
FWIW - I used Seaguar GrandMax or GrandMax FX when it was available and Orvis Mirage.
I also use flourocarbon in conventional fishing and have no knot issues.
In the days when I tied mono to fluoro I had no issues so I suspect in your case it was more about the brand of fluorocarbon than the knot.
FWIW - I used Seaguar GrandMax or GrandMax FX when it was available and Orvis Mirage.
I also use flourocarbon in conventional fishing and have no knot issues.
pcray1231
Well-known member
1st part. Maybe. I have always subscribed to it's drag that matters, not visibility. I think it was Harvey and Humphries did an experiment where they tied like a few inches of rope to japanese beetles, unattached to a rod, and threw them in. The fish gobbled them up. Yet attach it to a rod and nothing. It's about what the fly itself is doing, not the line. Likewise I have gone to these places, like the Tully, Valley, Little Lehigh, etc., where dudes are fishing midges with 8x and stuff. On small flies like that I use as thick as possible, so long as I can get it through the eye of the hook. On tricos and midges that's usually 5x or 6x, depending on the hook manufacturer. And I do just fine with them.
But my goal is NOT to straighten out the leader. Especially on smaller flies, I'm trying to make slack line casts accurately. Not always succeeding, lol. But that's the goal.
bigjohn358
Well-known member
I've tried about every kind of tipet material out there and I keep going back to Berkley Vanish for trout. I use 6 pound vanish when the water is higher and off color or around heavier cover. 4 pound Vanish is my main nymphing line. When things get super low I go down to 2 pound Vanish. Now when it comes to bass fishing I will not use the Vanish. I've been using P-Line Shinsei for bass and everything bigger than trout.
I only use two fluorocarbon tippets and use them just for nymphing/euronymphing. My main tippet is 4 lbs Seaguar Invizx, a lot of PA nymphers use this. When I need a smaller tippet for midges I go with Soldarini 6x. I don't use any lighter than 6x for nymphs.
I don't buy into the invisibility claims of fluorocarbon, but these seem to be more abrasion resistant than nylon - which is important when bottom bouncing nymphs.
Knots with fluorocarbon line was an issue, but the modern products knot well.
Also a trick I learned on the Truckee in NV where guys use 4x with midges is to use a loop knot so the fly moves more freely. Most of the fish they catch are standard size rainbows, but they wanted to have the extra strength when the occasional cannibal brown took the fly.
I don't buy into the invisibility claims of fluorocarbon, but these seem to be more abrasion resistant than nylon - which is important when bottom bouncing nymphs.
Knots with fluorocarbon line was an issue, but the modern products knot well.
Also a trick I learned on the Truckee in NV where guys use 4x with midges is to use a loop knot so the fly moves more freely. Most of the fish they catch are standard size rainbows, but they wanted to have the extra strength when the occasional cannibal brown took the fly.
Silent Ocelot
Well-known member
During last year's trip to fish steelhead in Erie I picked up a spool of the Cortland fluorocarbon (gold label) in the 5X category. It's rated at a 5X diameter but has a 5.7 pound breaking strength, which is 1.6 lbs. more of breaking resistance than Orvis Mirage fluorocarbon in 5X (4.1 lbs. of breaking strength). Incredible stuff! I fished it confidently and landed 6 of the 12 fish I hooked into. Most of break-offs were due to me failing to combat the fish properly with body and rod positioning. The fish I was getting into were anywhere between 8-12 pounds. I'd use this tippet as my go to trout tippet but it is costly and I don't think having that high of a test pound breaking strength for the local trout I fish for is necessary. I think that tippet was the most important part my setup during that trip as the flows were clear and steelhead, being lake dwellers, are quite shy.
My go to for main trout fishing has been Seaguar Invizx in 4lb. It ties well. I have been using it for years. $22.99 gets you 200 yards of the stuff which should last you the year. You can fit all of that line on a spent Orvis Mirage tippet spool too if you have the patience.
So I gave you two options, my personal favorite and a more economical choice.
My go to for main trout fishing has been Seaguar Invizx in 4lb. It ties well. I have been using it for years. $22.99 gets you 200 yards of the stuff which should last you the year. You can fit all of that line on a spent Orvis Mirage tippet spool too if you have the patience.
So I gave you two options, my personal favorite and a more economical choice.
Silent Ocelot
Well-known member
I also believe that having nylon riding on the surface can create a shadow and thus spook wary fish. Fishing dries under fluorocarbon tippet is a wise idea and is what I do, but my leader is nylon to help aid in floatation.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
I've found that even with fluorocarbon, light tippets (6X - 8X) will float regardless just because they aren't really dense enough to break the surface film. When you get to 5X and heavier it's more likely they will sink.
The other thing is your tippet picks up residual skin oils and at least when I am fishing a real silk line which I dress with a paste floatant or use a thread furled leader which I similarly dress, it is about impossible to keep the paste floatant off of my tippet. That's why I usually resort to "sinking" tricks even for a fluorocarbon tippet if I encounter a particularly fussy fish.
In regards to suppleness and drag free surface floats with fluorocarbon versus nylon. I don't use store bought leaders but prefer to build my own. For dry fly fishing and SOME subsurface fishing it is usually a thread furled leader or woven silk leader to which I add transitional sections and a tippet.
Maybe I'm a genius but I have the proportions of my forward sections down to a science. When I deliver the fly I impart a tiny bit of oomph to the forward cast and stop it short so it kicks back slightly and makes gentle curves in the forward sections & tippet.
I've been doing this tactic and getting excellent results forever without a George Harvey or other specialty leader or using nylon.
It just what works for me...
