Yep, it's quite relaxing when I don't have time or motivation for a full outting on the stream after work. Plus I'm pursuing my casting instructor cert thru IFFF, so I gots to practice. For a fly, I just tie on a piece of bright color yarn.
Selective trout?
- Thread starter tomitrout
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Yep, it's quite relaxing when I don't have time or motivation for a full outting on the stream after work. Plus I'm pursuing my casting instructor cert thru IFFF, so I gots to practice. For a fly, I just tie on a piece of bright color yarn.
greenghost
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FYI -- According to Culum Brown from Macquarie University, "Fish are more intelligent than they appear. In many areas, such as memory, their cognitive powers match or exceed those of ‘higher’ vertebrates including non-human primates."
geebee
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i used to practise for saltwater casting - double hauling is a biatch until you get it...as is reverse casting with a double haul. I've also practised with my left quite a lot to build up muscle memory. not enough though lol.
i found snow the best medium - you get very little line resistance on the strip and no danger of 'burning' the line on a weed or stick etc.
you get funny looks from the neighbours, but they thought i was weird anyway...
i found snow the best medium - you get very little line resistance on the strip and no danger of 'burning' the line on a weed or stick etc.
you get funny looks from the neighbours, but they thought i was weird anyway...
uhhmmm, I'm gonna disagree here, based upon my experiences.
I know of a few fish in the Letort that I've had a hook into, that when I come back a few days or even a week or two later that will have absolutely nothing to do with me as soon as the leader hits the water. These are fish that I've often previously targeted only to spook or put down for the evening. Then I finally get it right and fool 'em only to come back again after our up close and personal encounter and they will bolt for cover as soon as the line hits the water on that first cast. If that's not a learned behavior based upon a memory of our encounter then I don't know what is.
I don't know how long those memories last, but they certainly remember that that line on the water equates to danger whereas before it didn't.
BrookieChaser
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I think trout are capable of learned behavior. In what capacity, I don't know.
geebee
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memory is not the same as reason - trout have been shown to have memories that last up to 90days, but a trout still can't reason between choices - they make deductions based on instinct alone.
I read a paper where trout were given a tab in their tank and when they pushed it they got a morsel of food - which they repeated everyday. some days they took the tab away and brought it back days later...up to 90 days later.
they then pushed the experiment - they put two tabs in the tank - one for a small morsel, one for a big morsel to see what would happen. with only the first tab pushed releasing a morsel.
the result was that the trout pushed either tab randomly - they could not reason that one tab gave them a bigger reward than the other i.e. they were incapable of making an informed choice.
geebee
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okay - when i meant memory in the first comment i meant rational memory i guess - the ability to use memory to reason or make choices.
they just don't have that computing hardware.
its like if i asked you if you liked ice cream, you could tell me yes or no, and why (sweet, creamy, cold etc.). a trout could only reply "food".
one is based on cognitive thought and reason, the other more on instinct.
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Memory is the backbone of reason. In other words, without memory, there is no reason. Your discussion seems to ignore this. Trout have little to no long-term memory, unless you want to call instinct memory, which you might well plausibly do. I don't believe 90 days-- there is a fly in the ointment with that "study."
I am pretty sure I understand the difference between the two.
True, unless they have survived an attack. But let me use this same instinct to prove learned behavior and therefore memory.
On a non-pressured stream a trout that detects an angler will take cover because of the above instinct.
However, on a pressured stream it is fairly common for a trout that has obviously detected an angler to hold in its lie. The trout has learned that the funny looking creature with the stick is not the threat.
My position is that trout can exhibit learned behavior and have memory. Anything else is your imagination.
Why can't experience be used in these simple decisions?
As you have shown they do make decisions. Food or not food is a decision, safe or not safe is a decision.
I am using this definition of decision: a determination arrived at after consideration. I find that to more accurately describe a refusal than your word "impulse".
There is an obvious determination not to eat the non-food. Would you agree that a trout that rises just short of a fly and flows downstream with it for 5 yards could be described as "considering eating that fly"?
Sure, as I said before even humans get it wrong sometimes.
I didn't say it was.
marcq
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what's the first rule in fly fishing that we all learn? Match the hatch. for dries I thing the trout are looking for a distinct appearance that the bug makes on the water. it could be the wings the legs I am not sure but I think a good example is if you look at the trico hatch. the most distinct part of a spent trico is the what their wings look on the water. I believe that what the fish are keying in on. at first I would tie all my tricos with the three large tails but now I don't because the fish are not looking at the tails. then I did a more noticeable CDC spinner wing style fly and it was a good pattern.
it goes for almost all fish. I have seen stripers blitzing and would not touch anything bigger then three inches. you could probably throw a live eel or whole live bunker in at then and they would not touch it.
basically what I am saying is size is everything when fish are selective.
it goes for almost all fish. I have seen stripers blitzing and would not touch anything bigger then three inches. you could probably throw a live eel or whole live bunker in at then and they would not touch it.
basically what I am saying is size is everything when fish are selective.
