Scud, sowbug, & shrimp flies

[trout_stalker]

I, like must ff, know when to use nymph or dry flies, but when it comes to scuds and other crustaceans I'm lost. How do you use/rig these flies? Do you blindly use them only if there are significant weed beds present? Would you use them like nymphs on nutrient rich waters like Fishing Creek, Penns, etc.

 

[gfen]

they're used like nymphs. use them in places where they might live, which is abundant.

A seine spread over a landing net is a pretty astounding thing. You would be amazed at how much life lives in the water.

 

[jdaddy]

trout_stalker wrote:
I, like must ff, know when to use nymph or dry flies, but when it comes to scuds and other crustaceans I'm lost. How do you use/rig these flies? Do you blindly use them only if there are significant weed beds present? Would you use them like nymphs on nutrient rich waters like Fishing Creek, Penns, etc.

You hit on a good point with the weed beds. Scuds and sowbugs are more available and/or get to larger sizes in more fertile waters. More fertile waters typically have higher nutrients available for the grass, thus more grass. Scuds thrive in nutrient rich waters with higher alkalinity. The calcium that creates the alkalinity needs to be there for the scuds to develop their shells. So you got your weeds for food, calcium for exoskeleton growth and rapid growth which makes for happy trout. Scuds are poor swimmers and therefore should be dead drifted much like the average mayfly nymph. Scuds frequently turn orange when they die, thus you will see guys fishing orange hot spot or solid orange scuds. Use enough shot/tung to get them down. Bead midsections work to that end, as does creative use of weight, however those really cool looking scud tung bodies that you think would be so great aren't. They cause the scud to ride upside. Anyone want to buy some tung scud bodies?

Scuds are generally found in more watersheds and in greater abundance than sowbugs. Most of the scud logic applies to sowbugs.

When to use scuds/sowbugs? When they are present, duh. LOL. You know the streams that have them (through written documentation or on stream research). In those streams that have high concentrations of these critters, they will represent a large portion of the average sized fishes diet.

It is also suggested that these protein rich nuggets color up trout beautifully. My small sample size confirms this.

I prefer not to blindly use them. I prefer to fish these to actively feeding fish. This applies to clear, limestone spring creeks. Scuds in tailwaters is generally a different subject imo and can often result more in prospecting than sight fishing to grubbing fish.

Fishing Creek, a lot of tailwaters, limestone springs are all loaded with scuds. I understand that Penns is as well.

 

[govtmule]

try using one in tandem with a PT or use a walts worm which looks like a shrimp, caddis, sowbug.....

 

[Fishidiot]

All good advice.

Sowbugs and scuds ("scuds" generally means freshwater shrimp of the Gammarus order - what we typically see in our streams) are a staple for many FFers who fish a lot on limestoners. Since I fish these creeks a lot, more so in the colder months of the year, I fish a ton of scuds and cressbugs. I fish 'em dead drift but like to give scuds a twitch as these fellas are fast swimmers in short bursts. For sight fishing I prefer a small scud - ditto as a dropper when nymphing. For searching water, I'll usually use a somewhat larger cressbug.

 

[troutbert]

Sowbugs and scuds are not necessarily linked to weedbeds. They are also found on the rocks of the stream, on logs in the stream, etc.

Take a look in the stream, see what's living in there. If you see sowbugs and scuds, try imitations of them. Fish them just like nymphs.

 

[surveyor06]

Very true troutbert, the LL is rich with scuds, but they are under rocks and cling to just about anything. A great pattern to use there.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I enjoy using and tying up scuds. A big part of learning to fly fish for me was on Lititz Run, and the trout really suck those things up on that stream. I fish them like nymphs as well and is usually my go-to for Limestoners.

 

[jayL]

I tie few specific scud imitations these days.

I tie fuzzy nymphs on scud hooks. They seem to get taken when nymphs are on the menu as often as they get taken for seafood.

I'd guess that most of your impressionistic nymph patterns, when fished in a scuddy fashion (lots of good info on that above), are getting taken for them already.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I also tie those kinds of nymphs Jay. Actually, scud hooks are my go-to for things like olive bead heads and such.

 

[troutbert]

Are people lumping scuds and sowbugs together?

They are different creatures. Which are you seeing on your streams?

On Spring Creek, there are both sowbugs and scuds.

 

[jayL]

troutbert wrote:
Are people lumping scuds and sowbugs together?

They are different creatures. Which are you seeing on your streams?

On Spring Creek, there are both sowbugs and scuds.

I am not, but I think many do.

Cress (sow) bugs are a creature for which I do tie specific imitations, because I don't think they tend to imitation from generic nymph ties as well as a scud.

That said, my best sowbug imitation, by far, is a walt's worm. I think the walt's worm will often get taken for a nymph as well.

 

[BrookieBuster101]

To answer the question as I had yesterday, I like to fish them especially this time of the year when the other insect species are for the most part tiny and in lesser abundance.

Troutbert,
I believe the reason for why they are referred together has to do with them being fairly unrelated to the main trout stream macroinvertebrates. (no distinguishable life stages)

But yea good point, they are two different species.

 

[troutbert]

I'm still curious to know which ones people are finding in their particular streams.

As I said, Spring Creek has both.

Logan Branch also has both. But the upper end, from the hatchery down to about the spring at Axemann, has mostly sowbugs.

And the lower end, which has a lot of spring water coming in from the spring at Axemann and springs at Cerro Metal, has mostly scuds.

The scuds seem to be in the cleaner, cooler water. And the sowbugs are found where the water is not so clean. For example, below fish hatcheries there are often loads of big, fat sowbugs.

But I'm curious what others have seen in their streams.

BTW, a guy I know that lives near the Lackawanna River told me there were sowbugs in there, and I was a little skeptical, because typically they are in limestone streams, and I wouldn't expect to see them in a mine drainage stream. But they are in there; I've seen them.

 

[PACOFRANSICO]

On Spring Creek early this yr. I had a good day on a burnt orange scud midge tandem. I like using scuds as a achor fly to get tandems nymph rigs down. I tye em heavy.

 

[BrookieBuster101]

Ive found scuds in lake erie and even 9 mile run here in pittsburgh. Its a sewage ditch that the city cleaned up to call a park. And naturally, every spring creek ive ever fished.

Cressbugs in my experience are found in the same habitat as scuds are. (except in those two odd cases) They occupy the same niche although one may be more dominant than the other.

 

[jayL]

A SEPA limestoner that I fish has very limited vegetation. I see only scuds, primarily gray and drab olive, with no cress bugs.

A similar stream in the lehigh valley, it's the exact opposite.

Both have marginal water quality, but hold wild fish, so that's relative.

 

[PSUFishMenace]

Troutstalker, thanks for asking this question as I also do not really have a clue how to fish these flies. I've caught a couple fish with them but more often than not I can't get any takes with these. I'm definitely bookmarking this topic..

I have these two flies that are a "mating shrimp" pattern, do you guys think there is a certain time of year when I should use this pattern? Do shrimp/scuds/sowbugs have a mating season or is it a year-round kinda thing?

Maybe the fly is just a junk fly but one day it drew a hit when everything else failed (that was the only hit I had in 3 hrs) so I'm thinking it's not completely useless (even if only because trout take it for something else).

 

[jayL]

I can't imagine a trout ever keying on a mating pair of shrimp. But who knows.

I'd imagine it just looks like a bit of food floating by, and the fact that there's two of them is a bonus.

If there are scuds, I'd imagine they'd take two at a time, regardless of the time of year.

 

[jdaddy]

"Mating Scuds", from what I can tell, are relatively new and popularized by Orvis, particularly there $.50 sell of same.

Seriously. Dubbing. Hook. Bead. Ribbing. All of those are not required sometimes, particularly in smaller sizes.

Troutbert, didn't you write a book on the streams of PA? Never mind, that is baiting. You have written about a large portion of the majority of better streams. Certainly you know about the prevalence of scuds and sow bugs in those streams no? I am just trying to figure out if you are looking for spirited debate, information for a new book or what?

Regarding water quality and presence of scuds v. sow bugs, I again hold that in the vast majority of cases it is dependent upon many variables however you will find scuds out numbering sow bugs 90%+ of the time.