Private Water Fly Fishing

Dear greenweenie,

Defend him all you want he is still stocking rainbow trout over wild fish, in a pay to fish club setting no less. I don't care what he did before, I'm judging him by what he's doing at the present time, and now he's doing the wrong things for MONEY!

So feel free to spin your defense anyway you want to because it doesn't matter, what he is doing is by definition the height of selling out.

Regards,

Tim Murphy




 
Tim,

There is some supplementing of stocked fish in sections THAT DO NOT SUPPORT WILD TROUT. So bash all you want without facts. Btw, do you know the condition of the stream and the wild trout population prior to the stream being once again privatized compared to where it is now?

Hear what your saying but just because the guy makes some money from this doesn't mean he's sold out. If that's your definition of sold then every chapter and executive officer of TU has sold out.
 
I do not know Gene Macri. I am however grateful for the work he and Dr. Black performed which led to the closing of the Big Spring Fish Cultural Station in 2001. For someone who calls the Big Spring home, I am convinced we could not have made the strides made thus far without the efforts of Gene and Dr. Black. I have a dream of seeing the Big Spring return to the stream I knew as a child in the early 60's. At age 54, that may or may not happen in mu lifetime, but I don't think anyone can argue the Big Spring is not a better place 10 years after the closing of the hatchery.

Fee fishing is not my style, but far be it from me to knock it. As has been stated by others on the board, I too have concerns with stocking over top of healthy, sustainable populations of wild fish, but since they own the land, they are entitled to do as they see fit.
 
Dear greenweenie,

What is he doing that is different from what Donnie Beaver does except for perhaps by degree? Just because the club caters to a less well to do clientele doesn't make what is being done right, charging people to fish is still charging people to fish, isn't it?

Many people on this board had no trouble bashing Joe Humphreys and Lefty Kreh for being associated with Beaver's operation.

Selling memberships in a pay to fish operation isn't widely considered to responsible stewardship of a resource by either myself or anyone that I'm with whom I'm acquainted. I don't foresee anything happening that will change that but you may certainly try.

Regards,

Tim Murphy
 
I have to agree with Tim M. Mainly, I am disappointed to hear of Macri's association with this club. From what I knew of him, he was a positive influence regarding wild trout. I am truly sorry to hear that he sold out to this, as Tim noted, irresponsible stewardship of a resource. So sad.
 
If you think that video was bad, give their website and whirl and see what a crock of sh*t that thing is. If this stream that they speak so highly of is as good as they say, why isn't class A? And while thinking along the same lines, then why is it being stocked?
 
I have no issue with what this guy does. Hell, i'd do the same if i had the chance. I do however, find it incredibly irratating when i see some guy grinning ear to ear holding a pellet pig trout, pretending it is a trophy. (But thats just my opinion.)
 
Tim, sounds like your gripe is nothing more than pay to fish. This is actually the European and uk model and almost all the best rivers are privatized. And why is what he doing not right? What isn't right about it other than you don't agree with pay to fish?

This isn't just stocking thousands of pellet head hogs over wild trout it's about maintaining the stream and monitoring the trout - managing resources - and it's called riverkeeping and it follows the European and English model. There is some supplemental stocking of trout in sections that don't currently support wild trout but measures are underway to expand wild trout into these sections. The club takes care of the stream so how do you not call that conservation? Are these people supposed to do this for free?

I can see where people don't like pay to fish but people are making all sorts of negative comments on what he is doing based on irrelevant information. The video is boring or his websites arent polished so he is an idiot and what he is doing is wrong. That's my point, you might not like pay to fish but that doesn't mean what he is doing is wrong and not good for the stream.


 
GW, you come on here just this month with all of 16 posts and refer to members as "clueless idiots". Great start! Just because some folks don't see things the same way you see them, they're idiots? Anyone who supports stocking over an already existing, naturally reproducing population of trout will not be viewed as a true "river keeper".
 
Ok, why isn't having a general moral repugnance toward pay-to-fish waters a valid position to hold. It isn't just a gripe about pay-to-fish operations, that is the WHOLE gripe, at least with me.

And not that I care, because I don't care about private property owners closing the creek to just their sports, but let us not kid ourselves that it is what it is: as you say, the European model, and some of us don't want to see Pennsylvania's resources placed under the pay-to-play European model.
 
If I had won the Irish Sweepstakes when that was the only game in town,I would have bought Green Springs or a chunk of the Letort but since I didn't ,I didn't.
Strict regulations requiring catch and release,fly fishing only and a reasonable rod fee for upkeep would have seemed fair.
Dream on Pete,dream on.
Surprised that more haven't done so.
 
I definitely can't get on-board with a private club fee or pay to fish water. I still think that our waters should be everyone's resource. The euro/english system was awful in my opinion. Riverkeepers and assigned beats etc. No thank you.
 
Wildtrout, Stocking over a viable, self sustaining class a water (meets certain biomass requirements) is not acceptable. Supplemental stocking certain sections of a stream where wild trout are not present while implementing and monitoring measures to improve the wild trout in an effort to get the wild trout to populate these sections, without destroying the rest of the stream in the process, isn't stocking over wild trout in the sense that everyone wants to believe. In fact, what the club is actually habitat improvement. Do you complain about the stocking of trout at the breaches in allenbury?

Jack, you can dislike pay to fish, you can despise it but that doesn't mean that those privatizing streams are ruining the streams habitat and conservation and that's the point. People who don't like pay to fish are drawing conclusions that clubs ruin water and aren't about conservation. Some are, some aren't, what is being ruined is your ability to fish that stream and if that's your gripe, I agree. If people don't like this, find property owners along streams and lease their property and create a free membership fishing club to anyone who wants to be a member thus insuring access will remain open to all.



 
I don't know Gene Macri personally, but I've read a lot of material he wrote and he used to come on this board years ago. I respect the good (and long) fight he put up to shut down the hatchery on Big Spring. But I do find there to be a significant tension between his "river keeper" posture - at least in the environmental stewardship sense, if not the older English gamekeeper sense - and a "pay to fish" stocking operation. I don't think fee fishing operations are per se evil, and they can even improve and protect habitat. Moreover, the angling public generally supports the state stocking over wild populations as well. But I admit it rankles me when private fishing operations put on a public face suggesting their main motivation is "conservation". I'd like to see an outfit like that which refused to stock at all and just worked hard to build up the wild pops. On a quality water like Spruce, with limited angling pressure and strict C&R, that absolutely could result in a fantastic wild fishery. Then I'd believe they were all about the resource. Failing that, just admit that your business model requires an unnatural abundance of unnaturally large trout to keep your paying customers happy and drop all the sanctimony.
 
If I own property along a stream that is not navigable why should it be everyone's resource to enjoy? I don't like the pay to fish model but I don't have the money to buy my own stream for myself or to donate to the state. If you do, great for you and if you decide to sell club memberships, good for you, too.

 
Greenweenie1 wrote:
Wildtrout, Stocking over a viable, self sustaining class a water (meets certain biomass requirements) is not acceptable. Supplemental stocking certain sections of a stream where wild trout are not present while implementing and monitoring measures to improve the wild trout in an effort to get the wild trout to populate these sections...
Click to expand...
And you achieve this by putting in stocked trout? There are habitat problems (often silting) when you have wild/native trout in some sections and not others on a given stream. I don't believe putting in stocked trout that can/will eat YOY wild trout is the answer.
 
I have the same impression. But, maybe more accurate to say that 80% of stamp buyers do not know that there are wild reproducing trout populations in PA and of the 20% that do, only about 8% of those give a hoot whether they fish for wild or stocked trout, and then half of them actually get upset that supplemental stocking is done on occasion.
 
People who don't like pay to fish are drawing conclusions that clubs ruin water and aren't about conservation.
Click to expand...

I live in central PA and I've seen the way clubs manage private water on several local streams, all of which are class A. Conservation is a selling point for these clubs and not something they are in any way committed to. I've fished for the trout in the UK, on the Test and on several other privately managed beats on streams in Dorchester. What private clubs are doing in PA is absolutely not akin to the way streams are managed in the UK. It's a joke to compare them.
 
wildtrout2 wrote:
GW, you come on here just this month with all of 16 posts and refer to members as "clueless idiots". Great start! Just because some folks don't see things the same way you see them, they're idiots? ".
Click to expand...

And to this I give an emphatic "Amen!".
 
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