Pa DEP issue permit river use for gas companies

[wetnet]

I just read the Pa DEP has issued permits for the gas companies to use water from the Lackawanna River, the Tunkhannock creek and Bowmans creek. Are they nuts? The Lackawanna has portions classified as class A trout waters. The Tunkhannock and Bowmans can't support any water withdrawal during summer weather conditions. Who hired these guys? Non of these streams can support the kind of water usage needed for drilling.

 

[greenghost]

wetnet,
Where did you read this? Were there any restrictions -- waterflow mins., time of year, etc. -- on the withdrawals?

 

[littlejuniata]

Actual words from DEP employees, DEP =Doesn't Ever Prosecute

 

[pcray1231]

As greenghost implied, just stating that the permits were issued doesn't make me against it. The question is what are the restrictions?

Best case is if its only for closed system drilling. Take the water once and done for each well, can choose the time, for instance high water in winter instead of low water in summer. Water is used for drilling, recovered, treated, and the same water gets used again, no need for taking more. Solids from the treatment go to waste disposal plant. Provided there are no accidents, all would be well. Accidents do happen, but thats the risk if we want to live in warm homes.

The worst case is if there are no restrictions whatsoever. Then we're at the mercy of the drilling company, if its a reputable company that cares about the environmental impact, it could still be alright. But thats exactly what the DEP is supposed to make sure of! It would mean the DEP didn't do their job and we're left at the mercy of the drilling company.

Of course there's many levels of restrictions in between.

 

[wetnet]

I'm not stating for or against I'm just saying that no one is looking at other resources for water than pulling it from the stream. High or low water there is quite an effect. Look at the Delaware. There are tons of plants along every stream. Where do you think they discharge the water? Let the gas companies pay to make the connections and park a tanker and PAY the municipality money fo the use of it and that money will be hopefully used for improvements.

Just a thought.

 

[wetnet]

Sorry I read it in "Pennsylvania Trout".

 

[JackM]

Here's some more news about the growing environmental problems that arise with deep gas drilling:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08333/931286-113.stm

 

[Squaretail]

Aint it funny how when it became economically feasable to drill these insanely deep wells thanks to the price of fuel, the price of fuel was somehow able to go down in price to a level of approaching 4 years ago?
One would think it would atleast slow the Marcellus boom atleast a little.
May be some hope in that statement though.

 

[tabasco_joe]

Here is a link to a page of gas drilling items set up by the Williamsport newspaper.

http://extras.sungazette.com/naturalgas/

 

[pcray1231]

Where do you think they discharge the water?

From order to worst to best:

1. Directly to stream
2. Public Sewage then to stream.
3. Company owned waste disposal plant then to stream.
4. Company owned waste disposal plant then reuse the water.

"Let the gas companies pay to make the connections and park a tanker and PAY the municipality money fo the use of it and that money will be hopefully used for improvements."

Don't really understand this one. The water is only used while drilling, i.e. setting up the well. A continuous supply of water is not needed, after the well is dug, the water is pumped out and you have a producing well without need for more water. It's not like a well will be continuously taking water throughout its working life. While some companies do build streamside wells, and take the water directly, more commonly the water is tanked in and tanked out afterwards. Companies have their own tankers, no need to pay a municipality for it, and as far as paying to park it for a few days, thats part of the lease with the landowner, and yes, they pay for it.

I grew up in gas country, had 2 wells within sight of the house. I realize what an economic boom Marcellus may be for many areas. I am not against the drilling, in fact I'm all for it. Gas is a lot cleaner than coal mines, and no offense to mine workers, every mine we can replace with gas wells is a good thing. I do, however, want to make sure its done in a responsible manner.

 

[wetnet]

Well my idea was just that an idea. I'll need to do a ton more research to figure out how feasible it is. Most Wastewater treatment plants aren't as big as ours and I'm not sure how the whole water transport thing works with the gas mines. Also I'm sure most wastewater treatment plants have some big guns somewhere worried that they will get taken to court should something water related go bad. I just look at 1,000,000 gallons of treated water within a 3 day period going to the stream when it doesn't go to irrigation. I'd rather see dead grass then dead fish, should the mining groups reduce the levels below what's tolerated. Like I said just a thought. It might not be doable. What might seem a simple way to reduce direct stream water use might be just plan and simple like my thoughts, something that can't be done. The gas mining companies as far as I know send the water they use through a treatment process before they discharge it. I'm not educated in what they do so I'll not be so quick to condemn them. I think a public meeting from the gas companies explaining the process might shed some light. Either way I know the more info you give the public at times the more it makes them speculate. It can be a double edged sword. Maybe we just send them a survey and ask them how many of them fish. The results might suprise us as well. I'll keep poking about, listening and questioning. Maybe I'll learn something that is substantial enough to share. Sometimes simple minded gets things others would pass by.

 

[Chaz]

There are supposed to be only 2 or 3 treatment plants that can process the water after itcomes from the deep wells. It cannot "LEGALLY" be dumped into streams, but it also cannot "LEGALLY" be dumped into sewer plants, they aren't equiped to process this type of water. The thing is the water can come from streams, as long as it is somewhere like the Delaware, Susquehanna or another big river.
Each well needs from1 to 5 million gallons of water to do the fracting that get the gas up to the surface, that is a huge amount of water. What comes up is laden with heavy metals and chemicals and brine. In short the water is quite dirty, and can't be used for anything except more fracting. Some of the gas companies are doing just that, but the biggest part o the problem is oversight, DEP Doesn.t have the horses.

 

[wetnet]

I don't get where they can pull water from Bowmans or the Tunkhannock if that's the case. We fish both and they aren't big compared to the Susquehanna or Delaware. Heck they just aren't big enough to pull any water unless they limit it to flood conditions. Also the release water to the Delaware are already a concern. I guess I'd like to learn more before jumping to uneducated conclusions.

 

[Chaz]

It is posible that they will be limited to when the river stage is high, you have to read the permit to find out.