Orvis Helios

[Woolybugger]

I recieved a Orvis catalog last week. I've never been a Orvis "fan" but I'll have to give them another look.

"the worlds lightest fly rod" is what they claim......... and after looking at the specs...... I have to agree!! LOL

My Sage Fli 9' 2 piece 5wt is 3.5oz. The same as a St Croix 9' 2 pc 5wt Legend Ultra. The Helios 5wt 9' 4 piece is only 2 3/8oz!! Pricy at $755. But....... even the cheapo Orvis Clearwater II in a 9' 5wt 2pc is only 3 1/8oz!! and that rod is only $159! A hundred bucks less than my Sage, and half the price of a Legand Ultra.

IMHO, weight means everything to me. A 9wt saltwater 9' 9wt flyrod is a quarter oz less than my "high end" Sage! I'm starting to think that Sages might not be the best rods available.

Any of you guys use a Orvis? And the reels look pretty good also...... a light combo in the catalog is cheaper and lighter than the Cabelas combos!!!! What in the world is going on?

I purchased a pair of Orvis felt boots at Cabelas on sale, I never bought any Orvis leaders or any other stuff because I always though it was a "overpriced" ripoff!

I got turned off by Orvis about three years ago. A marketing flyguy used to flyfish the Susquehanna with two 7 weights. I was a wading flyguy with a cheapo 6wt and I would catch a dozen smallmouth bass next to him while he talked all the time. I never saw him catch a fish, but he had some fancy tackle!! I guess he thought I had some money because he kept targeting me every time he saw me........... but he never caught a fish, while I caught a smallmouth on every second cast with my cheap outfit and my cheap olive buggers!!

 

[afishinado]

Wooly bugger,

Orvis rods have come a long way in the past few years, but I suggest you try out the Orvis Helios and compare it to a Sage Z-Axis, a SC Legend Elite or any other high end rod based on how well they cast and fish.

You point out that the new Orvis Helios is the lightest rod out there, and you declared them the best based on that alone. The Helios has an aluminum reel seat and a graphite composite insert, while the two rod manufacturers that you mentioned, Sage and St. Croix, along with most other rod manufacturers, use heavier and more expensive nickel silver reels seats and wood inserts for their high-end rod lines. Also the Helios uses very lightweight REC nickel titanium single foot guides, while Sage uses heavier H&H snake guides.

The Orvis blanks may or may not be the lightest in the industry by fractions of an ounce, but blanks that can be weighed aren’t available from Orvis – just finished rods. I believe
a large part of the weight savings for Orvis appears to be from using lighter components.

Just out of curiosity I plan to cast the Helios, just to judge for myself. How well each rod casts and fishes is how each rod should be measured, while minor weight differences measured in fractions of an ounce mean very little overall – IMO.

 

[SlumpBuster]

I heard the Helios are nice rods but not worth the extra money over the Zero Gs. I don't own either rods myself so this comes from what people tell me but the guys that I know that own Zero Gs claim they cast themselves and I have seen first hand them through some line. That guy may have had some fancy equipment but the reason he caught no fish was because he obviosly talked to much.

I saw Cortland came out with some new rods that are really light and I think only in the 100-200 dollar range. I'd try to find out more on them too.

 

[Christian]

I don't think it's revolutionary to see these rod weights. I have a 5 year old Redington NTi (sadly, it's discontinued) 9 foot 10 weight three piece that weighs 3.95 oz. It is a cannon in spite of the fact that other than the fighting butt is has the look and feel of a 5 wt. Holds up a very nice loop with sinking tip lines up to 500 grains, in fact it's the only rod I have which can hold any decent loop with very heavy sinking lines. They made a 5 weight that I believe was well under 3 oz (3 piece 9 footer).

It's too bad that after a couple of acquisitions (first to Orvis and now to Sage I believe) that the Redington was relegated to lower end rods so as not to compete with the acquiring companies high end rods.

 

[Padraic]

I like Orvis stuff just fine. I think the tippet material is a nice midpoint between stiffness and limpness that makes casting and presentation easy. I also like the slower action rods they make. IMHO, that's a niche no one else is going after and they do it very well.

That said, I wonder if the lighter reel seat insert and components will affect the balance of the rod. Perhaps it's my experience with bamboo, but I feel that balance is more important that absolute weight. If the back end of the rod is too light, you could end up with a rod that feels "tippy".

 

[Woolybugger]

"Orvis rods have come a long way in the past few years, but I suggest you try out the Orvis Helios and compare it to a Sage Z-Axis, a SC Legend Elite or any other high end rod based on how well they cast and fish."

I sure will! The three you mentioned are what I was thinking of.
This year I'll get the perfect longrod for me..... if I have to spend a grand, well that's my passion, so it's money well spent.
Every winter I have to "upgrade" my fishing stuff. LOL Sometimes I think the anticipation is actually better than the fishing itself!

Scuze me, I've got a whole pile of fly fishing mags to check out......... and the million sites on the Internet. So much to do and so little time.

 

[gunnyguide]

I know this is an old post, but i figure people may be still checking out the lightest fly rod in the whole damn world!

I have been an Orvis guide for the past 6 years and seen the progression. The zero gravity had some breaking problems, and that is the main reason for the birth of a whole new stick. The Helios is great. However, its light weight does not come with out drawbacks. In our shop, we often take beginners, who are hard on rods in general. I believe that the helios rods are prone do damage due to being pegged with bead-head fly's while casting. When that weighted fly hits the rod, often due to wind, it can crack the "thermo-plastic resin". This is no different than other rods, but maybe the weight of the helios is easier to damage.

With that said, I have a 4 wt. mid flex helios that I use more than most people fish and it has never broken. If you arn't out there beating on it, its really is a great rod. Just take care of it.

 

[skiltonian]

same discussions came out when loomis introduced the GLXs.
I've casted the hydros / helios and are sweet - wait a few years and get one from e-bay for $200.

 

[Alpabuck]

I have 4 Helios rods and I love um. The 9ft 4wt is a crazy dry fly rod, I cant imagine finding any other rod that I'll like more for a long time. I've used it everywhere from Spring Creek to the Upper Delaware and big rivers out west and it just flat out gets the job done. Put a BLA2 on it and it's feels weight less. I fished a few Z axis rods as well and they are equally impressive. The 10ft 6wt is pretty much the best big river nymph rod I've ever fished I'm pretty sure I'll have one in the near future!

You really cant beat the 9ft 4wt Helios though it's just a wicked fun rod!

 

[Pittflyguy]

Echoing the sentiments above, weight of the rod means nothing if it's action is not suitable to your casting style. I have held some very expensive "light" rods that cast like broom sticks. I am not suggesting the Helios is not fantastic. I am suggesting that one might want to cast it and others before deciding it is the right rod for them.

Just my opinion.

 

[k-bob]

"That said, I wonder if the lighter reel seat insert and components will affect the balance of the rod. Perhaps it's my experience with bamboo, but I feel that balance is more important that absolute weight. "

I agree, it's not just the rod's weight, but the balance of the outfit and its total weight. Some older light orvis rods , such as superfines, are very light but have short cigar grips, and with a lightweight reel, they can feel tip-heavy since the balance point is beyond the end of the grip. You need a heavier reel or longer grip. Too much reel weight, and the setup is no longer very light. Changing the grips is not cheap.

I know this thread is about longer rods, but there are some deadly inexpensive lightweight rods out there now.... The 3-weight 7' St Croix Imperial weighs only 2.1 oz (in a 4 pc rod!) and, just as imortantly, it balances near the end of the grip with a loaded lightweight reel weighing about 3.1 oz.... So you can have a _balanced_ 7 foot 3-weight 4pc rod with reel and line at 5.2 oz total weight! rod costs $180.

 

[k-bob]

good article on balancing lightweight fly rod-reel combos:

http://www.flyfishohio.com/a_question_of_balance.htm

 

[jdaddy]

Afish's assertions on component weight have come full circle and proved it's self true with the introduction of the Hydros series. Orvis Hydros uses the same blanks as the Helios, just less expensive and heavier hardware so it would appear that the weight savings is in the hardware. Having said that, the Helios and Hydros blanks are both excellent and I agree that the 9' 4wt is an amazing rod having used one for an afternoon. Oddly, I liked everything about the Helios better than my Winston BIIMX, and the guys rod I was using liked my Winston BIIMX better than his Helios. Oddly, neither of us were willing to trade???? If I was paying full price for a rod (which I never do) I think the Helios beats the competition in the $700 range hands down. I have not fished the Hydros but being the same blank, etc I imagine it cannot be beat for a couple hundred less than retail price of the high end rods. Having said that you can buy used or custom built Winstons and Sages for $400 - $500 and represent a great value.

If I was pulling the trigger today though I would HAVE to test drive the new Loomis. I got a bunch of marketing material from them yesterday that I can email if anyone is interested, more than on their website. That NRX appears to be an awesome rod.

As Loomis advises, all the technical specs come together to form what is known in the industry as the rod "life". Read the paragraph below from their recent marketing campaign, take out the Loomis and NRX hype and it really speaks to why we should be trying rods out prior to purchase. Each rod feels different to each angler.

"All the features listed are what contribute to making a rod with feel or what those in the rod business call "life". Sensitivity is measured in frequency transfer but every hand on every man or woman has a different way of processing this into what their brain tells them. It may tell them to let the lure continue to fall down the face of a rock wall or that the last 4 bites came out of the gravel instead of the sand so they should work the lure slower in that zone once they are in it. It might just tell them - "tick"- you better set the hook. But having a tool that will let the angler differentiate those things is the key to the focus of what NRX is all about."

 

[Alpabuck]

I'm interested to see what all this fuss is about......I have a couple extra bucks layin around as well which good thing if this new stick is as good as Loomis says it is!

 

[jdaddy]

They have are gonna have some nice 10 footers in there for ya.

 

[Alpabuck]

I see that, I want a 10ft 6wt though! I need a pin rod also! So many rods so little time to fish!

 

[jdaddy]

I thought they were gonna release a 10' 6wt Hydros?

 

[Alpabuck]

I was told that it's coming.....from a very good in source in Manchester Vermont.........I was told in the Fall. I was also told my 9ft 6wt mid flex Helios would be here June 20th well guess what still no rod and I'm now being told October