Muddy Water Brookies

[PSUFishMenace]

There's been a lot of rain in my area this week and I got out twice to fish for native brookies in the high, muddy water. The first time I only caught one 4" brookie, today I caught 2 nicer ones. I didn't get skunked but with the outstanding days I've had fishing for wild browns in similar conditions, I feel like I should be doing much better. I'll drift or strip a black wooly bugger through the heart of pools that I know hold several trout and won't get a single hit. I tried some other flies too, such as big nymphs and SJ worms, and nearly every pool it's the same story...no bumps from short strikes, no swirls from chasing fish, nothing. So this leaves me with a bunch of questions that I am hoping you guys can help answer:

1. How soon after heavy rain are brook trout feeding the heaviest? Do they go into hiding and wait for normal conditions to return, or do they feed even as the water is rising? Falling water seems to be best for browns, but so far it's no good for brookies.

2. What flies work best in these conditions? Are brook trout (in a stream loaded with minnows) as willing to chase streamers as brown trout?

3. Do you still need to sneak up on pools as if the water was clear?

4. If the high water comes at the end of the summer when the water had been low(normal low summer levels on this particular stream, no worse than any other year), concentrating fish into only the larger pools, how fast will they leave those refuge pools when rains return? Does it take several storms within a few days, or will 4-6 hours of high water be enough to get them to spread out a bit?

5 (the most bizarre thing I could come up with). Do large creek chubs get to feed before the trout? I ask this because I caught some large creek chubs in places I hadn't seen them before, and remember reading online a few years ago that brook trout have been documented to stop eating other fish in the presence of a significant number of creek chubs.

I'm very interested to hear what you guys have to say, appreciate any advice you are willing to share!

Here's a pic I took today to give an idea of the conditions I'm talking about. This was right when I got there, the water was almost back to normal when I left.

 

[k-bob]

Hi psufishmenace: I don't know the answer to your questions but here are a few thoughts... Streams with forested headwaters, so no roads or development, may clear up pretty fast after heavy rains.... Also, tom rosenbauers small stream fly fishing book says that browns more than brookies love minnows in small streams....

I almost always fish with dry flies because its what I like to do... maybe try a bushy bigger dry fly? I have the best fishing when flows are high and I have to fight some leader drag. I think that small stream brookies and browns will hit a dry fly with some leader drag, but not too much. Bigger flies may be visible to the fish in murkier water.

Even if you were a day too early fishing will be great soon...

Also, forgot to say that if you do try dries in muddy or tannic water, you might get something other than those common stimulators tied with dark brown deer hair... They are hard to see in mudded or tan water... I like bigger parachute adams with bright wings or mohawks or whatever the upright thing is called

Need to see the fly to watch for leader drag and improve your casting locations...

 

[stevehalupka]

is there a really deep hole around that bend?

 

[pcray1231]

1. With both browns and brookies, I often find the fishing very good when the water is rising. It's usually a shorter window than the fall, though.

2. Brookies generally don't chase streamers as well as browns, that doesn't mean they never do, though. I tend to use dries, and if that ain't workin, a flashy nymph of some sort, beadheads work well.

3. High and off color water lessens the "spooky" factor, and yes, you can get closer. How much closer is highly situational and I usually play it by ear.

4. Highly situational. In my experiences, they'll spread out within the hole and maybe to a hole or two above and below, but it takes em a while to spread back around the whole stream.

#5 and a continuation of #4 as well as your pic. K-bob is right. The highly forested streams tend to get high, yet stay fairly clear. The brown water, the description of concentrating brookies, and the chubs all lead me to believe this is a borderline trout stream, and it's right after a tough summer for trout. I hope I'm wrong, but your lack of success may have something to do with lack of fish.

 

[trout_stalker]

#3 - Don't forget, there is also the vibration factor. If under clear water conditions they felt vibrations and see a fisherman then won't they associate the vibrations with danger? So, Pat is correct in describing it as situational. They won't see you nor your casting, but they will feel your presence. Standing still for a while should help. I would still wade quietly.

 

[k-bob]

Steve the idea is that if you compare a straight section of the stream to a section with a bend , the curved part is more likely to have a deeper hole. The sharper the bend, the deeper the hole. I can't tell from this picture of course how much of a bend this really is and how deep the hole under that log is.

Just like water digs holes under waterfalls it will dig holes where streams turn sharply.

That helps if you are choosing where to go on a new stream from a map

If you happen to know valley creek at one point it takes a very sharp right hand turn just past a bridge... big hole there.

 

[streamerguy]

The comments about creek chubs are interesting and pcray might be right about the lack of fish. I don't have a ton of experience brookie fishing, and I haven't fished a ton of different streams, but 2 of the streams I fished before I have caught chubs in. The first stream There was a pretty good population of chubs and only caught a couple trout, and wasn't the most productive brookie stream I fished. The second stream I caught chubs in actually has a pretty good population of brook trout and only caught a couple of chubs in only one pool, but they were nice size fish. Both of these streams were low when I caught the chubs.

I have noticed though on some stocked streams I tend to catch more chubs when the water is up, and less chubs when the water is low. So idk if water level has something to do with it or not.

 

[k-bob]

I am sure you thought of this, psufm, but if the stream has unposted headwaters that are at a higher elevation, you could move up. The presence of chubs suggests that a stream section is not all that cold, but further upstream the water may be colder and it may have fewer chubs.

Brookies do better in really cold water than browns, that's one reason why stream headwaters at high elevation will sometimes have more brookies, fewer browns, and no chubs.

Brookies also cope well with the food-poor environments of small headwaters areas... Right where water comes out of the ground there isn't much life in it (that's why spring water can be better to drink than stream water), but brookies will just grab the bugs that fall in, making them good dry-fly fish. If the headwaters are swampy, so the stream is tannic, brookies handle that relatively well, also.

In some cold high headwaters, the baitfish, browns, and chubs will be rare, but some brookies will hang on and chase dry flies.

 

[PSUFishMenace]

quick reply for now, don't have time to quote everyone:

The water in the pic is only ankle-deep. not a place where I ever see adult trout, just wanted to show the conditions.

The headwaters are heavily developed as far as brook trout streams go. Nothing right along the stream (DEP has done a great job limiting impacts of recent development), but high up on the hillsides, which no doubt contributes to the muddy water. However the other stream I fished (that only produced a 4" brookie) has maybe 4 houses in the entire watershed and was even muddier than this one, after less rain. go figure

The stream that produced only the lone 4" trout produced 14 trout in under three hours not long ago. On the stream in the picture, 5-6 trout is a good day, because it is relatively low gradient and in clear water it is obscenely difficult to approach the pools without spooking the fish (if you don't believe me, ask Atlas lol). I believe the section I fished yesterday holds 25-30 adult trout and probably twice as many little ones. Whether those fish were still in refuge mode, hunkering down in the high water, or being spooked by me, I don't know, but I am confident they were still there.

The chub population is very low compared to most other streams in the area. Once or twice a year I will net minnows out of the creek for smallmouth bait. When I did this a few weeks ago (avoiding the obvious trout refuge pools of course), I netted about 30 blacknose dace for every creek chub (and 3-4 YOY brookies for every creek chub). It may very well be a borderline trout stream but it's as good as it gets in my area.

Jsut throwing this additional info out there for now, I'll check back in later.

 

[PSUFishMenace]

Given that you guys have said most mountain streams get high but not muddy, and brook trout evolved in those places, I'm thinking brook trout just aren't well suited to feeding in muddy water. This would mean high and clear water is fine for brook trout fishing, but high and muddy water is not. Thanks guys!

Next time it storms I'll just hit up some wild browns since going after brookies in muddy water seems like it will usually be a waste of time.

 

[jayL]

PSUFishMenace wrote:
and brook trout evolved in those places

Be careful with that premise. Brook trout populated ALL of our trout streams before the state was deforested and stocked with nonnative species.

More recent developments are in line with your assumption, but the vast majority of brook trout evolution was in larger streams as well.

That said, before the great clear cut, even our larger streams probably held up an awful lot better to rain, not to mention the lack of plowed fields and development in all of the valleys.

 

[troutbert]

I've caught brookies in far murkier water than that.

It sounds to me like the warm water during the hot spell a little while back probably moved the fish upstream.

The brookies probably moved further up for cooler water, and the warmwater fish (chubs) probably moved up into the section you fished. I've seen that type of shift happen on other streams during hot weather.

BTW, that stream looks like it has some serious scour issues. You can see that on both sides of the stream. Looks like "urban stream syndrome" to me. Too much stormwater runoff.

 

[PSUFishMenace]

That said, before the great clear cut, even our larger streams probably held up an awful lot better to rain, not to mention the lack of plowed fields and development in all of the valleys.

Agreed, that's more like what I meant to say.

TB, I don't believe temps are an issue on this stream. The bigger of the two I caught was in the furthest downstream pool I fished. Scouring is definitely an issue, but considering all of the development around, it could be much worse.

 

[Chaz]

I tend to agree with TB on what he says, though I've done well on streams that have plenty of chubs in them when fishing muddy water. Most of the streams I fish for brookies run clear 95% of the time. On a cloudy day try a black woolly bugger on a sunny day try a white on. If the stream is rising and only a little offcolor try a white bugger. If it's like coffee try black. If there is a mixed population of browns and brookies try a brown trout pattern, I guarantee you will catch some brookies, and probably some large individuals too.