Mini dungeon question

[Bocianka1]

I'm looking at tying mini dungeons as my first articulated streamers. I saw D-Nymph made a few that was posted awhile back. I thought maybe he or some other tiers might be able to clear something up for me.

I've watched Kelly Gallups videos for both the Sex Dungeon and the mini Dungeon. It appears the weighted eyes are attached on the curved side of the hook. wouldn't that make them ride hook pointing down? I have little experience with weighted eyes, but the few i have used were placed specifically to weight the hooks point up. I would think with a bottom dragging streamer such as this that it would be tied with the eyes on the opposite side of the hook, so the hook rides point up. the way i snag things, i can all the help i can get avoiding losing flies, especially big ones such as these.

Am i missing something or was it designed that way on purpose? Can you tie it either way? thanks for your help.

 

[poopdeck]

It's definitely tied to ride point down. I don't see why it couldn't be tied the other way around. there's probably something I'm missing since Ive only tied a handful of articulated streamers in my life.

 

[Tiogadog]

Galloup designed them to ride point down. If you prefer them to ride point up tie them the same way but finish the head as shown in this video.

 

[TrtnBux]

Stay tuned... I'm working on a demo video and should be done tonight.

 

[PennKev]

Bocianka1 wrote:
I would think with a bottom dragging streamer such as this that it would be tied with the eyes on the opposite side of the hook, so the hook rides point up.

I don't believe KG ties them with the intent of the being "bottom draggers." If you read any of his writing or watch his videos you'll notice he emphasizes free swimming streamers fished in the middle and top of the water column.

Yes, they have lead eyes, but that is offset by the deer hair collars and heads. (Which should not be tied densely as with a deer hair bass bug).

However, yes, the hook-point-down orientation is more prone to snags.

 

[afishinado]

Bocianka1 wrote:
I'm looking at tying mini dungeons as my first articulated streamers. I saw D-Nymph made a few that was posted awhile back. I thought maybe he or some other tiers might be able to clear something up for me.

I've watched Kelly Gallups videos for both the Sex Dungeon and the mini Dungeon. It appears the weighted eyes are attached on the curved side of the hook. wouldn't that make them ride hook pointing down? I have little experience with weighted eyes, but the few i have used were placed specifically to weight the hooks point up. I would think with a bottom dragging streamer such as this that it would be tied with the eyes on the opposite side of the hook, so the hook rides point up. the way i snag things, i can all the help i can get avoiding losing flies, especially big ones such as these.


Am i missing something or was it designed that way on purpose? Can you tie it either way? thanks for your help.

Kelly Galloup certainly knows how to invert the hook of a fly. Looking at the fly, the bulky and stiff deer hair and marabou is tied on the top of the fly. The bottom of the fly (both sections) are cleaner and less bulky with respect to material for more hookups, especially for trout.

 

[D-nymph]

I think everyone has covered your questions pretty well already. But yes, they ride hook point down & are not meant to crawl along the bottom, but rather act more like an injured sculpin in the middle of the water column.

I think there is too much material in the articulated streamers to use lead eyes to very effectively invert a fly, with two hooks, like you would, say, a Clouser minnow.

 

[PennKev]

D-nymph wrote:
I think there is too much material in the articulated streamers to use lead eyes to very effectively invert a fly, with two hooks, like you would, say, a Clouser minnow.

I think that in regard to the sex dungeon, weight placement relative to the deer hair is key to dictating how the fly rides. You want the eyes as low as possible in relation the the deer hair so that means tying them on the opposite side of the shank. The eyes should have a keel like effect on the fly. Which way the hook points can be the tier's decision. However, the extra weight of hook points down does create a more stable fly, particularly if we are still discussing mini dungeons.

In regard to other articulated patterns, a medium sized set of eyes is usually more than enough to get the fly to behave, if not too much. Large eyes are almost always overkill, and I seldom use them. That's where the various styles of brass eyes come into play. You can add a prominent eye without adding too much weight.

 

[jacob]

Don’t quote me on this, but I believe one reason Kelly designed it hook point down is because he believes it’s a more solid hookup when you get one to eat, i.e. there is more stuff on the bottom of their mouth for the hook to grab onto. I swear he said this in a video I watched a while back. It might be in that streamer chronicles series (flyfishingtheozarks) video with Kelly.

Either way... I love dungeons. Here are a few

https://instagram.com/p/Bn6o_icBhbj/
https://instagram.com/p/Blq9VPphAIJ/
https://instagram.com/p/BgaJmJQHh5T/

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Those are some nice looking flies!

 

[Bocianka1]

Jacob - you're right about Kelly talking about getting better hookups from the lower jaw. i was rewatching the min dungeon and a few of his other videos last night and i remember him saying that as well. Your dungeons look excellent. I hope i can learn how to do some half that good.

I also appreciate the observations of all the other posters. I hadn't even considered the bulk of the material being in the way, or that having the hooks on the bottom might make for better hook sets. Seems there's a lot more to consider when you start tying a fly, especially if you consider deviating from an established pattern recipe.

 

[D-nymph]

Bocianka, I would say the biggest repeat problem I see with larger streamer patterns is, especially with people who are new to tying them is- too much material (be it deer hair, dubbing clumps, lazer dub clumps, wool, etc) closing off the hook gap. When that happens, a fly may fish well/swim well, but when a fish eats it the hook up rate will go way down. The hook can't penetrate & hold because of a clump of material preventing it from doing so. Just be mindful of that as you go.

 

[jacob]

Thanks guys! I’ve found being meticulous on cleaning materials and not being afraid to cull the non-ideal feathers really makes a difference in the end product. Also, keeping a bowl of water next to you at the tying station to wet your Maribou before tying in makes a huge difference in getting things proportioned and seated well where you want them, i.e not fighting the fluffiness for clean tie ins.

 

[jacob_albright]

Those r some beautiful flies