line and fly control for river smallies

[SanMan]

hi again...long-time trout nympher here trying to learn the kayak fly fishing game for smallies in the Juniata and having some issues.

I fished above Newton Hamilton (put in at the "blind camp" ramp) yesterday in the morning and had a lot of trouble controlling my floating line and fly in the current. Did manage to catch a few including one nice sized one despite my struggles but it was a little frustrating and I have a few questions some of you seasoned veterans will be able to help with I'm sure....

I was by myself and tried to paddle upstream of the boat ramp so I could float back but probably only made it about a quarter mile upstream before I was in a full sweat from paddling against the current so I anchored in several spots as I worked my way back toward the ramp. I looked for area's of slower water to fish but, for the most part, the current would take my floating line and just pull my fly (black wooley bugger with large gold bead) back behind me very quickly if I would cast up and across...and if I tried casting more upstream to let the fly sink more I couldn't strip fast enough to have any control at all.
I'm wondering if in a situation like that a sink-tip line would be better than a floating line? I've never used a sink-tip except surf fishing for stripers a number of years ago in Delaware.

I know I should have tried a heavier fly like a clouser or something but I'm also new to kayak fishing and still learning the ropes on proper anchoring and maneuvering the kayak around so I just stuck with the same fly the whole time to keep it simple. The main problem seemed to be the floating line to me though anyway.
Thanks for any advice!

 

[afishinado]

SanMan wrote:
hi again...long-time trout nympher here trying to learn the kayak fly fishing game for smallies in the Juniata and having some issues.

I fished above Newton Hamilton (put in at the "blind camp" ramp) yesterday in the morning and had a lot of trouble controlling my floating line and fly in the current. Did manage to catch a few including one nice sized one despite my struggles but it was a little frustrating and I have a few questions some of you seasoned veterans will be able to help with I'm sure....

I was by myself and tried to paddle upstream of the boat ramp so I could float back but probably only made it about a quarter mile upstream before I was in a full sweat from paddling against the current so I anchored in several spots as I worked my way back toward the ramp. I looked for area's of slower water to fish but, for the most part, the current would take my floating line and just pull my fly (black wooley bugger with large gold bead) back behind me very quickly if I would cast up and across...and if I tried casting more upstream to let the fly sink more I couldn't strip fast enough to have any control at all.
I'm wondering if in a situation like that a sink-tip line would be better than a floating line? I've never used a sink-tip except surf fishing for stripers a number of years ago in Delaware.

I know I should have tried a heavier fly like a clouser or something but I'm also new to kayak fishing and still learning the ropes on proper anchoring and maneuvering the kayak around so I just stuck with the same fly the whole time to keep it simple. The main problem seemed to be the floating line to me though anyway.
Thanks for any advice!

You seem to be doing things right. The fishing has been slow, so maybe your lack of success is not your technique.

I use a floating line 90% of the time and can usually make it work in most river situations.

Not seeing the water you are fishing, it's hard to tell you how best to fish it.

Most times in moderate current and depth, I'll fish a cone head bugger that has some weight to it but is still fairly easy to cast.

Without knowing technique the fish prefer that day I'll start by quartering my fly upstream and mend upstream to allow it to sink. I try to stay in contact with the fly by stripping in the slack and/or raising my rod as it moves downstream.

As the fly passes my position it has some depth. While continuing to hold a little tension I usually release the line I stripped in. At the point where the fly is quartering downstream it begins to swing across the current.

Sometimes I'll mend some line upstream to slow the swing, other times I'll let it swing quickly across the current and other times I will strip in line trying to animate the fly. After I've covered the water below me with the swing or strips the line ends up directly below me. When the fly is below me I'll jig it, strip it some and let it hang for a bit and finally recast.

Doing the above shows the fish several looks during one cast. Dead-drift to begin > swinging > stripping > sitting in place. If the fish are hitting at certain point drifting, swinging or stripping, I'll continue to show them that part of the presentation.

Another piece of advice, fishing from a kayak can be a little more difficult at times. If the river is suitable , sometimes it can be better fished by beaching your kayak and wade fishing the section. You can jump back in your kayak and hit another spot.

As well as trying different techniques for fishing, keep trying different water types and structure or cover until you find where the bass are hanging.

When the smallies are active they will jump on your flies.....keep trying, the fishing will improve.

 

[larkmark]

Good advice above.
I fish heavily weighted streamers on a short leader 4 ft or even less on a floating or occasionally a sink tip. I often am wading and I stay in the center of smaller creeks and can work both edges in many cases. I fish down and across and throw streamer as close to bank as possible. Amazing the big fish that are in very shallow water at edges. Same with big trout. I then feed line and mend and jig while keeping line under my index finger. Bass usually hit it hard and seem to hook themselves so even a bit of slack line does not seem to matter. I very slowly make my way downstream and hit every likely spot.

I don't have much advice for fishing from a drifting boat. Usually I have another person at the oars to control positioning. I have tried casting from my one person pontoon but it has not been very productive. Anchoring up and thenhitting likely spots as you go along might be an option.

 

[D-nymph]

Do you mend?

 

[HopBack]

Do you mend?

lol that's great, I'm going to get some stickers made up for the back of peoples cars. I might make a small fortune for a short period of time!

 

[poopdeck]

If the current is I suspect he is describing, like really fast, mending is near pointless. Larkmark has it correct in really fast water, across and down concentrating on the swing with heavily weighted streamers.

Drag free drifts are unimportant. Get your fly down. I also find it's better to move closer to where you want to fish and keep as much line off the water as possible. Target specific rocks and structure and not so much on long drag free drifts.

 

[krayfish2]

From the OP, sounds like the boat may be anchored in a bad spot. Line control (what's being fished and what's hanging off the deep), picking the correct spot / angle to fish and mending should fix most of your woes. Sasha pretty user-friendly and will take just about anything if they get a shot at it

 

[SanMan]

thanks for the help guys...and your assumption was correct about mending...I did mend upstream but it didn't really help much due to the speed of the current. As for anchoring in a bad spot...I'm sure that's true as well but since I was sticking close to my put-in spot I didn't have a lot of choice in a relatively small stretch of river...everything seemed to be moving pretty fast with the exception of the very shallow edges. I will use this advice and hopefully get better next time out...thanks again!

 

[jifigz]

I've got a lot of experience for smallies with a fly rod.i didn't read all of the responses but here we go.

Tip 1: don't fish from a kayak. And I mean that, I hate fly-fishing from a kayak flaoting down a river.
Tip 2:. Anticipate your fly line in your fly's action..no need to get perfect mends/drifts. The fly line will help to stimulate and move your fly. It may actually hell you catch fish as your line slightly pulls your fly.

Tip 3: use the kayak and get out and Wade when you find food water.

 

[Swattie87]

Really good post by afish above. I'm one of those weirdo's who actually WW fished first, then took up Trout angling. So I'm pretty comfortable Smallmouth fishing, but I picked up some new stuff from that post. Specifically, releasing the stripped in line from the drift portion as the fly passes by you to lengthen, and keep the fly deeper during the swing. Good stuff. Will be trying that out.

To the OP:

Realistically, when they're in the mood, Smallmouth are pretty forgiving presentation wise, especially with streamers. I find it's either lights out, or they're completely turned off and it's a slow go. There's not much middle ground with Smallies.

Afish's prospecting technique is a good way to start out. When the fish are turned on you'll catch fish during all parts of the retrieve...As soon as the fly hits the water, on the drift, on the swing, stripping it back to you to cast again, just dangling the fly in the water while you're eating a snack, etc.

Once in a while, they'll key in on a certain presentation though. If they do, just give them that on repeat. I had a day a couple Summers ago on the Lower J where on the swing I'd have multiple fish dive bombing the fly on the same retrieve. If one fish missed, another would go for it. I caught over 100 fish in a couple hours that night...it was nuts. There were a ton of damselflies on the water that night, so I think that may have had them going.

It does seem like there are more slow days when Smallie fishing than lights out days though. When things are slow, focus on the drift portion in my experience. Add some shot, get it deep quick, and try to make the drift portion of the retrieve as long as possible...Really more like nymphing with a streamer.

Another technique I like when things are slow, especially during hot Summer days...Focus on shade lines, usually near shore. Cast into the shade along the bank and fairly rapidly strip the fly back out toward the sun, with brief pauses. You get some great strikes sometimes with this technique.

 

[larkmark]

Speaking of wade fishing here.I try to keep the fly down and do drifts down and across by shaking line out and mending upstream a bit each time. You can get a long drift like this. I do it in even faster water. You have to discover the right angle. You will discover it intuitively. Just play around and think about what you want that fly to be doing down there. Streamer fishing is a lot of fun. Second only to dry fly fishing. To be consistently successful with streamers on bigger creeks and rivers like Susquehanna and Delaware is definitely more complicated than just lobbing it out there. Although that works sometimes. I have had big trout and bass almost take the rod out of my hand on quite a few times doing this.

This guys is doing some cool stuff-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVjzHg2mlxs

 

[bigjohn58]

One thing that might help with the kayak and current...do you have an anchor trolley or some way to use a drag chain? It will slow the kayak speed down and allow you to hit water better. It is designed so you do not actually anchor but will just drag the bottom slowing you down. I use one a long logging chain and some large shrink wrap around it hooked onto one of those retractable dog leashes.

 

[D-nymph]

It's funny to think that "mending" line has only one purpose, drag free drifting a nymph or something. Mending has everything to do with controlling your offering in faster water with floating lines & sinking lines when fishing for all species. Will smallies sometimes crush anything they see regardless of where it is in the water column & how fast or slow it's going? Yes. There's also always a story in the paper about a kid catching a 48" musky on a crappie jig & minnow, that doesn't mean that a crappie jig & minnow is an effective way to musky fish.

 

[CLSports]

Mending? Drag free drifts? Floating lines? We are talking river smallies here right?

IMO, all you need it a good sink tip fly line say 250-300 gr. on an 8wt rod and a short leader of 3-4' and get that damn fly down in the strike zone quickly. Strip fast, strip slow, dead drift. It all depends. They all work if you get the fly down! You are going to get hung up and lose flies, but you will also catch fish.

I think most people overlook the most important part of a fly rod setup. The line. Cheap rod, cheap reel will do, but a good line is key.

If you are using top water surface poppers, then obviously a floating line is needed. A good line that will hurl a heavy popper is key here too.

Kayaks are tough to paddle and fish in current, but slower water is no problem. Pull over and wade the faster water and drift through the slow stuff.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

CLSports wrote: Pull over and wade the faster water and drift through the slow stuff.

THIS!

I fish the North Branch of the Susky out of a canoe using a very long kayak paddle. I get out constantly to more thoroughly fish good sections, most of which are in faster water (esp. this time of year). It's a lot less work and stress. And, it's more productive!

 

[henrydavid]

Fly-Swatter, I fish the Harding area on the North Branch. I agree that wading is the way to go. Even then any line left on the water can hamper my drift and casting.