All spun up

[simplefish]

I am having a problem with my 7X tippet getting spun up after a moderate amount of casts. I have tried different brands of tippet, and have experimented with tapering and tippet length. I have heard that if a tippet is getting twisted, it is due to the size of the fly. I have found this to be false. I have tried anywhere from size 14 to 24 flies, all with the same result. It is getting frustrating, since I am forced to use 7X with our current low stream flows and fish that are spooky. I have recently moved to SE PA from Long key in Florida, and have learned just enough about fishing for trout to know that I don't know much. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[David]

This is typically a function of using a fly that is too large for the tippet. The fly will spin in the air as it is cast causing the twisting...a larger diameter tippet will resist the twisting of larger flies.
You say, though, that it happens with smaller flies?!? Is this using the same tippet after using a larger fly? The tippets have "memory" and will retain the twists. You can use a leader straightener, although I've only had moderate success with these. Once mine gets twisted, I'll usually tie a new one on.

 

[PaulG]

Simplefish

IMO, I don't think 7x is necessary, you lose to many fish, flies, and your problem the twisting of your leader, plus you have to play your fish to long. Even when fishing small flies like tricos, I think 6x works just fine.

When fishing small flies I just use a longer tippet to get a good drift, works fine for me!

PaulG

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Hi simplefish - Welcome aboard! I'll try to help with your question, but you may not like the answer I give.

What you heard about the size of the fly in relation to the size of the tippet is actually true. There is a "Rule of Four" that generally applies to selecting tippet for a particular size fly. Take the size of the fly and divide by four - that is the correct size tippet for that fly. Therefore, by that calculating method, 7X would only be needed for a size 28 fly! Yeah, I know this is only a rule of thumb (not MY thumb!), but it is one factor in your problem - and there are more.

People often assume that the reason to use a smaller tippet size is because the fish can't see it. That is incorrect. If a fish can see 6X, you can bet the farm that he can see 7X! The difference in success rate lies in the suppleness of the lighter tippet, and it's effect on reducing drag. More supple equals less micro-drag. If you can get a drag free drift with a stronger tippet, size doesn't matter (at least for male fish :-D ). A longer length of tippet can give similar results as using lighter tippet for just that reason. De-greasing all but the last few inces or so of tippet may help as well, but I think it just makes US feel better, rather than the fish. Presentation is the key here. Using very light tippets is just not necessary, and may contribute to fishermen playing fish too long for fear of break offs - even though 7X is surprisingly strong, and IN THE RIGHT HANDS, more than capable of landing a large majority of trout you'll likely encounter. Since it isn't really necessary, why take the chance?

Fly design and the aerodynamics of the pattern can contribute to the problem. Flies like spent wing spinners come to mind. They are notorious for twisting tippets. Solution - try a longer length of heavier tippet to start.

Casting style/types of casts used can also play a part in tippet twist, as can the condition of your fly line/leader. Are they twisted? Pull a bunch of line off the reel and let it drift downstream (with no fly on the tippet), and pinch the line tightly between your fingers as you reel it back in. That may help get rid of some of the twist.

Lastly, you may want to try a different brand of tippet - some are more supple than others.

Hope this lengthy response helps you with your problem, but the solution may be as simple as just replacing your tippet more frquently - just make sure you dispose of old tippet properly. FWIW, I don't really know what I'm doing either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express............H.A.

P.S. These other guys type faster than an old windbag like me! :-D

 

[afishinado]

HeritageAngler covered it very well, also I agree with PaulG. - put away the 7x. Many think that a fine tippet is a shortcut to catching fish - it's not, for all the reasons stated above. You would be better served by perfecting your skills at getting a good drift rather than relying on using a finer tippet to fool fish. The finer the tippet you use, the harder it becomes to get a good drift, and the larger the fly you tie on, the harder it becomes. Getting a good presentation by using the proper size and length tippet, trumps using a tippet one or two thousands of an inch finer every time.

 

[flyfishermanj]

H-A and PaulG,

Well said!!! Couldn't agree more, fish mostly with 4x & 5x. Only use 6x when fishing really small stuff, which is usually a last resort.

JH

 

[Bruno]

Simple:

H. A . and Paul gave great insight into this issue. The only thing I could add would be to try a different leader. You may want to try a Slack Line leader.

 

[bert304]

Where do you fish in the SE PA. I also use 7X and I use 8X only for flies that are 18 and up, like the trico hatch. What type of casting method are you using? How long is the 7X section on your leader? I use the Super strong nylon from Orvis and have had no problem. When I use the RIO brand tippets I had a lot of twists and knots.

 

[bert304]

Here is a tippet chart I just found

Approximate breaking strength in Super Strong nylon (pounds)

Balances with fly sizes:

8X .003" 1.75 22, 24, 26, 28
7X .004" 2.5 18, 20, 22, 24
6X .005" 3.5 16, 18, 20, 22
5X .006" 4.75 14, 16, 18
4X .007" 6 12, 14, 16
3X .008" 8.5 6, 8, 10
2X .009" 11.5 4, 6, 8
1X .010" 13.5 2, 4, 6
0X .011" 15.5 1/0, 2, 4
.012 .012" 18.5 5/0, 4/0,3/0, 2/0
.013 .013" 20 5/0, 4/0,3/0, 2/0
.015 .015" 25 5/0, 4/0,3/0, 2/0

 

[MKern]

If it's rio powerflex it will twist (and never come undone) becuase of it's stretchy properties.

I have noticed that flies with foam, especially foam wings will cause twisting.

 

[Fishidiot]

Simplefish,
Welcome to the Keystone State. If you're new to trout fishing and want to learn more about your new state, you've come to the right place - lots of expertise here and many of the forum members live in SE PA and you ought to be able to find some fishing buddies.
I love Long Key and caught my first bonefish on a fly on the public flat along the oceanside at the state park there - one of my all time favorite fly fishing places.

 

[fly_flinger]

It blows my mind that people actually use 8x or even smaller. I think I've only ever used 7x once and had no more success than I did with 6x. More people should listen to the advise HA gave about presentation if they are using anything smaller than 6x.

 

[pcray1231]

Bert,

8x with a size 22? 7x with an 18? 6x with a size 16? Seriously? And why? I just can't imagine having any control over the cast like that, you'd almost have to have your tippet way too short.

For me:

Steelhead, streamers, huge nymphs: 2x or 3x.

Dry flies:
6-10: 3x
10-14: 4x
16-18: 5x
20-28: 6x
I do carry 7x on occasion, I have used it, but only on sizes 26 and 28 should 6x strike out after adjusting the leader/tippet.

Nymphs:
6-10: 3x
12-18 cloudy and/or fast: 4x
12-18 clear and/or slow: 5x
18 and above: 5x

 

[simplefish]

Tahnks for all of the info guys. I think heritage-angler summed it all up for me. From now on, 4x and 5x are going to be my standards. I fished Big Fishing Creek this past weekend in the Narrows near loganton (My inlaws own a cabin right on the creek) and had success with much less frustration using 5X.
Fishidiot, I caught my first permit on the same stretch of beach you were talking about. There is a sandy bottom with soft coral heads just outside of those flats you were speaking of. I really miss living there, but now I am intrigued with catching 4 inch trout in ankle deep water. When in Rome..........

Thanks again guys