San Juan worm

They are junk flies for sure and effective as duly noted. I don't use them much because I like to preserve the illusion that fish are intelligent despite my firm understanding that they are really, really dumb.
 
Maurice wrote:
I think the term "Junk" fly in addition to resembling bait also refers to its simple, one or two step/material process. So in that case they all still apply.....just sayin.
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I think there's a lot of room for your own bias in this system. I know of plenty of one/two material simple patterns that aren't considered "junk". The bright colors come into play for SJW, but I think they get a pass because they are so close to the naturals.

I tie a simple sculpin, for example. Two materials, and only slightly harder to tie than a SJW. Given that tons of bait fishermen use baitfish, I don't see how it passes your "junk test".

I have no problem calling a SJW a junk fly, but I have never heard a convincing and consistent explanation for why it is so. Are foam and deer hair terrestrials not considered junk because they float?
 
We used to use a size 22 nymph up at the Paradise back in the 60s that was just a single color spun fur-absolutely deadly if you used the appropriate color and intensity for the season.
Would that be a junk fly ?
No hackle,collar,tail-just the fur.
 
No, that's just a small pellet fly.
 
And a cress bug is just a pellet, amirite?

I am done driving 3 hours to fish for the wild trout. They are just eating junk like the stockies.
 
it wasn't designed to be a pellet fly but good shot Jack.LOL
It was tied tapered like a nymph body and it was important to have the correct color/hue or it wasn't very good.
You could go by Art Flicks book
dark gray
light gray
dark brown
light brown
tan.
Ed Koch and Ed Shenk were the big promoters of this tie and I used them out west on ponds and spring creeks where there were NO pellets fed.
 
i find irony in the junk flys even though they are tied to imitate something that actually is in the water , eggs , worms , sucker spawn , and if indeed trout are dumb then everytime a angler goes out and gets skunked then i guess this means on that day we are dumber than a trout !
 
Really don't fish the SWJ that much but seems like it works well on the stocker trout and my intuition tells me to use them after a rain.

Hodge- no offense, but I laugh when you ask questions about Spruce and the J etc.. You know, since you can walk to them and your getting answers from dumb dumbs like me from 3 hours away. Again, no offense to you, just funny to me is all-sure wish I lived there for the fishing.
 
Well i acctually i cant walk to them, but i can ride my bike. im only 16 i just got into this fly fishing. And to be truthful i only fish a small section of the little j since it is the closest( only 9 miles away) because ikt is a pain to ride your bike 9 mils to fish then ride back
 
None of them are junk flys Jay, they are all traditional, natural and effective. I'm convinced. Happy now......
 
gfen wrote:
I've never caught a fish on a SJW, "real" green weenie, sucker spawn, and only one on a glo bug.

I have a hard time using them because they look silly, mostly, and they feel like cheating. Regardless, they seem to work very well.

I really don't understand suckerspawn, though.
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I like gfens description...but I suppose it won't pass the Jay test......
 
The joy of FFing is in the belief that you are not triggering base survival instincts, but are rather diplomatically persuading the fish to reason that your offering is indeed real food that is something like what it feeds on within the ecosystem in which it lives. Certain of us cannot maintain that illusion when tying certain "flies" at the end of our tippet. I feel that way as to the SJW in nearly all fly fishing situations. This doesn't mean I don't have one in my box, nor that I wouldn't become desperate enough to use it. I have and it worked, but that alone did not elevate its status to me beyond "junk" fly.
 
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I can't resist!!!!! What about terrestrials? Are they all JUNK? They don't even live in water , how can trout be that dumb? PaulG? Beetles? All those trout in Clarks that take a beetle or an ant when there is #OOPS# hatching everywhere are sooooo dumb. At times i have to wonder about some of y'all.
 
"Junk" flies as some of you refer to them catch fish. Let me rephrase that "Junk" flies catch alot of fish!!
 
Maurice wrote:
I like gfens description...but I suppose it won't pass the Jay test......
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I dunno, the boy's not unreasonable, he's just contrary.

My definition splits the difference, and I'm happy to acknowledge their utility and effectiveness, while at the same time stating why I don't like 'em.

Except suckerspawn, I still vote that's a dumb fly. I think once a year I tie one on, throw it once, look at the sodden mess, clip it off and store it til the next year. Seriously, do those things _actually_ work? Someone tie me an effective one, I'll use it all day Friday, with an indicator. I want to catch a fish on one.

I want to believe!
 
Maurice wrote:
None of them are junk flys Jay, they are all traditional, natural and effective. I'm convinced. Happy now......
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No, because I still don't understand where the "junk fly" line is. I wasn't trying to convince you.
 
Gary,

Yes, they work very well.

Haven't you seen the suckers spawn on the lehigh valley streams? Trout will be eating those eggs.

I sometimes fish them for trout, especially during the sucker spawn. They are also one of my favorite steelhead flies.

The secret is angora.
 
jayL wrote:
Yes, they work very well.
Haven't you seen the suckers spawn on the lehigh valley streams? Trout will be eating those eggs.
I sometimes fish them for trout, especially during the sucker spawn. They are also one of my favorite steelhead flies.
The secret is angora.
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Uh oh, being called on my sucker water secret....

Seriously, yeah, I've seen it, and I tink that's usually the time I tie one of those sodden masses on the line and try. Again, it just looks too damned hokey, I can't believe.

I think that's the secret ingredient, too. Belief. Me, I got none. Its gotta trump angora, which I decidedly don't have. I do have sparkle yarn and flash body braid, though, which I've also used, looked at, and put away.
 
I will tie you some sucker spawns. You can believe in them.
 
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