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TroutBuster
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Indeed Hook_Jaw!!
R
RLeeP
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Without getting all windy about it, my overall view is closer to Yough's than to the minnow believers. Creative presentations and ability to read the water are the keys, IMO.
I also agree with Troutbert about the Mepps thing. The only thing that is more effective than a properly presented #1 Mepps with no hair in the tail is a set of electrofishing probes.
IMO, at any rate..
I also agree with Troutbert about the Mepps thing. The only thing that is more effective than a properly presented #1 Mepps with no hair in the tail is a set of electrofishing probes.
IMO, at any rate..
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TroutBuster
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The only thing more effective than a #1 Mepps is a #2 custom creation built from Netcraft supplies..... Best spinners ever!!!
jayL
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I would be willing to wager that nothing outfishes the niti-1 trout killer. I got a fly rod in the first place because catching them with that thing got way too easy.
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TroutBuster
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What would that be?
jayL
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Best I can find:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/niti-1%20trout%20killer/Retnavyscpo/Niti-1.jpg
It's just a weirdly shaped spoon. I used to get them at the Harrisburg outdoor show. When I was a spin fisherman, I carried a box of 24 of them. I just get one now for opening day. When I snag it on a rock and lose it, my spin fishing season is basically over.
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rrt
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I think some of you are selling flies short. I think a good nymph fisherman can outfish nearly any other type of trout fisherman. (I wish I were a good nympher!) I think the Yough Guide has a handle on it, and RLeeP is in the game, too, though I think a good nympher can stand up to a good Mepps man, too. Plus, as we all know: fly-fishing is a lot more fun.
pcray1231
Well-known member
well, certainly presentation, reading water, etc. has a lot to do with it. But that stuff isn't reserved for fly guys, bait guys can read water and change presentation too. And yes, you can put every bit as much of action into bait as you do with artificials. We kind of chalked all that stuff up to the skill of the angler, and obviously a skilled fisherperson will outfish an unskilled fisherperson regardless of the tackle in their hands or offering at the end of the line.
yes, its condition based, I've never been more certain of anything in my life. Flies and fly gear are a major advantage, at times. Bait and spinning rods are a major advantage, at times. The proper discussion is to discuss the merits of each, as none are the ultimate tool for all places and times. And really, there are two separate questions here, bait vs. lures vs. flies, and spinning gear vs. fly gear vs. centerpinning.
Bait:
Advantages: The real thing is better than a fake, visual, smell, and taste. If you get a hit and miss him, they typically come back. They also hold onto it so all hits are noticed.
Disadvantages: You're generally limited to fewer food items. If the fish are keying on something other than what you've got, you're outta luck. Otherwise, you'll outfish everyone. The reason bait is advantageous for fresh stockies is that they generally aren't keyed in on anything at all. Longer period in the stream, wild fish, richer waters, frequent hatches, etc. all promote fish keying in on something.
Spinners, lures, and streamers:
Advantages: The major advantage here is the ability to cover water quickly. If the fish are aggressive, it can be very effective. Minnows succeed in the merits of both bait and spinners.
Disadvantages: You're pretty much limited to only large food items, especially baitfish but also crayfish, leeches, etc. Spinners and lures are not real and don't even look all that real, you're just hoping for reaction strikes, but they are flashier than anything else you can throw. Streamers can be drifted or worked, and look more realistic, but they don't have as much flash.
Flies:
Advantages: The ability to imitate ANY food item, big or small, at any point in the water column or on top of it, and with any action.
Disadvantage: They're not real. The real thing is always a better imitation than an imitation. And generally, when fish hit them, they spit them out, leading to a higher priority to be put on the strike detection and quickness of the angler.
Now gear:
Spinning:
Advantage: Can generally cast further. Easier to learn. Surrounding vegetation less of an issue. The flat mono line cuts water and allows you to get deep fast. It also has superior ability to feel bites and bottom.
Disadvantage: You need added weight in order to cast that distance. Unless a bobber is employed, that means you have to keep a tight line to prevent a nearly immediate snag, negating the drag free drift. It also means its difficult to fish the top half of the water column at any reasonable distance.
Fly Gear:
Advantage: The weight is in the line. It means you can use smaller items with no weight, even at a distance. Which means you can let the line go slack without worrying too much about snagging, allowing a drag free drift. The fact that the line typically floats also enables topwater fishing at a distance.
Disadvantage: read the advantage list for spinning gear, these are the disadvantages of fly gear.
Centerpinning:
Advantage: The ultimate drag free drift machine.
Disadvantage: Rather limited in being able to vary presentation. Requires weight.
yes, its condition based, I've never been more certain of anything in my life. Flies and fly gear are a major advantage, at times. Bait and spinning rods are a major advantage, at times. The proper discussion is to discuss the merits of each, as none are the ultimate tool for all places and times. And really, there are two separate questions here, bait vs. lures vs. flies, and spinning gear vs. fly gear vs. centerpinning.
Bait:
Advantages: The real thing is better than a fake, visual, smell, and taste. If you get a hit and miss him, they typically come back. They also hold onto it so all hits are noticed.
Disadvantages: You're generally limited to fewer food items. If the fish are keying on something other than what you've got, you're outta luck. Otherwise, you'll outfish everyone. The reason bait is advantageous for fresh stockies is that they generally aren't keyed in on anything at all. Longer period in the stream, wild fish, richer waters, frequent hatches, etc. all promote fish keying in on something.
Spinners, lures, and streamers:
Advantages: The major advantage here is the ability to cover water quickly. If the fish are aggressive, it can be very effective. Minnows succeed in the merits of both bait and spinners.
Disadvantages: You're pretty much limited to only large food items, especially baitfish but also crayfish, leeches, etc. Spinners and lures are not real and don't even look all that real, you're just hoping for reaction strikes, but they are flashier than anything else you can throw. Streamers can be drifted or worked, and look more realistic, but they don't have as much flash.
Flies:
Advantages: The ability to imitate ANY food item, big or small, at any point in the water column or on top of it, and with any action.
Disadvantage: They're not real. The real thing is always a better imitation than an imitation. And generally, when fish hit them, they spit them out, leading to a higher priority to be put on the strike detection and quickness of the angler.
Now gear:
Spinning:
Advantage: Can generally cast further. Easier to learn. Surrounding vegetation less of an issue. The flat mono line cuts water and allows you to get deep fast. It also has superior ability to feel bites and bottom.
Disadvantage: You need added weight in order to cast that distance. Unless a bobber is employed, that means you have to keep a tight line to prevent a nearly immediate snag, negating the drag free drift. It also means its difficult to fish the top half of the water column at any reasonable distance.
Fly Gear:
Advantage: The weight is in the line. It means you can use smaller items with no weight, even at a distance. Which means you can let the line go slack without worrying too much about snagging, allowing a drag free drift. The fact that the line typically floats also enables topwater fishing at a distance.
Disadvantage: read the advantage list for spinning gear, these are the disadvantages of fly gear.
Centerpinning:
Advantage: The ultimate drag free drift machine.
Disadvantage: Rather limited in being able to vary presentation. Requires weight.
T
troutbert
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- Nov 2, 2006
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- 10,668
For smallmouth bass, if anyone knows anything that will match, or even come close, to live madtoms (stonecats), please divulge full, detailed information! 
wetnet
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- Mar 20, 2008
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I have to laugh. I know where there are hold over stockies that no one even with minnows did good. A man feeds them everyday, They LOVE chicken Nuggets! LOL
fritz
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- Sep 9, 2006
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- 676
Stonecats--good one. Walleyes love them just as well. Now, tell me where to catch some and I'll bypass the flies for a bit.
redrockgrizzly
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- Dec 1, 2006
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- 329
i got a bunch of redfins today and my dad and i are hitting white deer creek on friday. i only fish "bait" 2 or 3 times a year. I havent fished with my dad in a few years so doing a little bit of redfinning will be like "the good old days" i may even keep a few stockies for supper.
tomorrow i may go chuck some big stones flie nymphs on penns creek.
tomorrow i may go chuck some big stones flie nymphs on penns creek.
