Knots

[SMAlbert]

I tie a clinch Knot every time. I check the knot EVERY time. I've even put the hook into my hand because of this test.

Yesterday I lost a nice hold over rainbow to my knot failing. I use a Cabelea's 5x mono tippet when streamer fishing. If it wasn't so peaceful and an amazing night on the water I would have lost my mind.

Should I be using a different knot? Or a larger size tippet?

Is this just a bad product? And that the line doesn't have the proper knot strength that I need?

Any suggestions would be great or recommendations.

Thanks!!!!

 

[afishinado]

SMAlbert wrote:
I tie a clinch Knot every time. I check the knot EVERY time. I've even put the hook into my hand because of this test.

Yesterday I lost a nice hold over rainbow to my knot failing. I use a Cabelea's 5x mono tippet when streamer fishing. If it wasn't so peaceful and an amazing night on the water I would have lost my mind.

Should I be using a different knot? Or a larger size tippet?

Is this just a bad product? And that the line doesn't have the proper knot strength that I need?

Any suggestions would be great or recommendations.

Thanks!!!!

5x is too light of a tippet for fishing streamers. Using 3x for streamers should solve that problem. A clinch knot should work fine.

 

[fritz]

Agree with the above. I’ve learned the “streamer with 5X” lesson for the last time a few years ago. On that occasion I was just too lazy to change tippet.

 

[timbow]

Thinner tippet = more turns on your clinch knot. 4-5 turns is usually fine for 3-4x but for 5-6x I would use 7 turns

 

[RLeep2]

I agree with the 5X being too light for streamers advice. I think that a couple other things worth mentioning are:

1) Checking your knot and the condition of the tippet from time to time. Stuff happens... Wind knots, friction wear in the tippet above the fly, etc. Every 10 casts or so, it's worth quick testing your knot and running your hand over the tippet to check for abrasion. Only takes a second and you'll lose fewer fish.

2) Even if you live right, are kind to animals and are diligent about monitoring the condition of your knots and tippet, knots are occasionally going to fail and tippet is occasionally going to break. It's simply the nature of the thing. You can minimize this stuff, but you can't completely prevent it.

 

[henrydavid]

Orvis knot

 

[Fly-Swatter]

I'll add my voice to the chorus: 5x is WAY too light for streamer fishing.


I'm sure some other posters could give you other viewpoints on this. Mine are based on lots of reading, 40 years fly fishing in fresh and saltwater, and a whole lot of trial and error!

Reasons...

1. Rule of thumb is to divide the hook size by 3 (or some kind of folk wisdom like that). I don't adhere to that, but it's a good starting point. Conditions will dictate alterations to this. If you want a rule of thumb for tippet size on trout streamers, [color=000099]try dividing the hook size by 4[/color]. 3x on #12 hook, 2x on #8 hook, 1x on #4 hook, etc. That should give you a good reference point.

2. Lighter tippet breaks easier. I know this is obvious, but....while timbow is correct about the number of turns for a clinch knot, those extra turns could burn lighter tippet if not lubed and seated properly, creating a weak break point just above the knot (tippet will look "curly" or "kinky").

3. Streamers attract bigger fish. Yes, there are myriad exceptions, but if you are streamer fishing, I would guess you hope for a big fish. Why not give yourself an added advantage and go heavier on the tippet?

4. The wire on a streamer hook is thicker than on smaller nymph and dry fly hooks. It's been my experience that thin tippet does a poor job of holding thicker wire in hook eyes.


I hope this is helpful.

 

[timbow]

12lb maxima green is usually what I use when streamer fishing. 5x is for P*@&ies!

 

[Fly-Swatter]

+1

Oh, I just remembered #5: To land decent fish on streamers using 5x tippet, you would have to play them carefully. That often means play them to death. If you do use 5x, please keep the fish. THere's no point to wasting a fish.

That's not meant to be insulting of sarcastic. This is an important teaching point, IMO.

 

[SMAlbert]

Thanks for the insight. I'll make the adjustments.

And the next time I go fishing for puppies timBow I'll have my 5x handy.

 

[maxima12]

Clinch and improved clinch knot are very easy to use and tie. Most use this regular. On the other hand a fly fisherman that fishes streamers on a regular basis, does not approve using the clinch style knots.

Why? It restricts the side to side movement of the streamer, imitating a swimming or injured baitfish.


Knots, such as the Duncan Loop, which allows a swing are preferred. There are other knots that can be used to achieve the swing.

A little more time consuming but with a little practice, you will be glad you switched.

Movement, vibration, pushing the water seem to be the ticket in streamer fishing.

No more than 6 ft. leader for sink tips. Most use a 1x or 2x tippet.

Floating lines, not uncommon to go to 12ft. Depending on water clarity. A heavier and longer butt section to transform energy for a proper cast.


Maxima12

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Maxi: I agree. I use a non-slip mono loop knot for all streamers and poppers. I've found it to have excellent strength using tippet from 6# to 18# test.

I tie it exactly like THIS.

 

[dc410]

Fly-Swatter wrote:
Maxi: I agree. I use a non-slip mono loop knot for all streamers and poppers. I've found it to have excellent strength using tippet from 6# to 18# test.

I tie it exactly like THIS.

I totally agree with Fly-Swatter on this one. I tie all of my carp flies on with a non-slip mono loop knot. If I need to bring a 12-15 lb. fish to the net it is definitely my “go-to” knot. I have all the confidence in the world with that knot (if it is tied correctly). I’ve never had one fail on a carp and I put some real serious pressure on them to keep them out of the crap. I’ve had tippets snap and hooks straighten out but can’t ever remember the mono loop knot failing right at the knot.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

dc410: I broke 2 #2 Gamakatsu jig hooks (on which I tied Meat Whistles) on the North Branch of the Susky this past Sunday. 10# tippet, 5 WT rod, zero knot failure. The hooks were not rusted at all. I am quite disappointed in the hooks, but the knots and tippet were impressive.

As a side note, dead drifting rust and tan meat whistles (or wooly buggers my buddy used) in 2-4' deep riffles in the AM (like nymphing) was the ticket. I pulled half a dozen fat smallies from one such spot. Up until then, very few on poppers and unweighted streamers.

 

[Steeltrap]

Improved clinch for anything bigger than a bluegill.

 

[Canoetripper]

I have always been fascinated by all kinds of knots and their applications to the task at hand regardless of whether they apply to fishing or knot(pun intended).

A fishing guide who I fished with in Colorado always told me that his clients would never lose a fish because he couldn't tie knots. Some people spent a lot of time and work figuring out knots and their applications.

I have kind of mastered the trilene knot for tippet to fly and the blood knot for leader to tippet. I do have two tools to assist me, and with a little bit of practice I really improved thanks to the tools which are on zingers on my lanyard or vest.

Next up is the nail knot. The guide said that it is important for knots to slide with as little friction as possible through the eyelets. I have another tool ordered and on the way to help me tie this knot and will purchase some inexpensive fly line and a spool of monofillament to practice with.

Right now the "hand shake" knot with the loop to loop connection between fly line and leader works good enough since I typically fish with 9' fly rods.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

This knot that knot ,just learn to make a good tie using whatever knot floats your boat. Practice untill you can tie it in your "sleep". Having tied a few in my years it pays to inspect each one and if it doesn't look right retie. Retie till it looks right. Wet the leader before you tighten in down!! Check it again after you tighten it down !! IMO most lost fish are the result of to much pressure put on the leader during the fight. The leader scrapes along the fishes gil plates and their tail beats on the leader which wears it to breaking points. Check the tippet/leader and if its rough replace it. If you snag or put your fly in a tree check it. Start the day with a fres tippet/leader. Tie a knot like your painting the Mona Lisa. FwIW. GG

 

[Steeltrap]

I tie my flies on with a nail knot tool. It takes about the same time as tying a clinch knot, or an improved clinch knot, but I don't lose flies due to a good fighting fish. the clinch knot doesn't hold a candle to the nail knot. Snags....well.......

For tying on tippet I use a double surgeon's knot. Fast and strong as can be.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Maxima, you get an A in knot tying. GG

 

[Canoetripper]

I recently received an Orvis Nail Knot Tyer. This is my third knot tying tool. I let Orvis or my local Orvis fly shop tie the backing to the reel and backing to the fly line.

I want to tie the nail knot from the fly line to the leader, blood knot from the leader to the tippet, and the trilene knot to the fly.

I want those knots going in and out of the guides on my fly rods as smoothly as possible. My local Wal-Mart had just what I wanted to practice tying the nail knot from the fly line to the leader.

Total cost of that new fly line and monofilament was < $18.00.