Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

[Six-Gun]

krayfish -

LOL - Smoke a cig for me, would ya. I've got a military fitness test to worry about...in about 8 months...and would love to take the hate of running out on myself with a cig and a beer. Alas, I would have to pay the price in the form of a lower score, and if I don't break 90% each time, I'll have to take the danged test every 6 months. So, I had to substitute the cig/beer with 70 minutes on the treadmill. Woo-freakin-hoo!

Thanks for the info and I will definitely give Wayne a buzz. I sit in possibly the worst fly fishing black hole in the US in the form of the Nevada desert, so advice from a seasoned vet who is close to the action is more than welcome. My conversation with the Winston rep definitely got me wanting to know more about that Boron III LS. It's not at all set in stone, as both of the rods Gfen mentioned are very much in play (the Winston WT and the Orvis Superfine, which I had also mulled but failed to mention).

No offense intended on the "tacky" comment. That style of seat just ain't for me and, more importantly, to each his own. I'm also a custom gun guy and am certain that more than one of my custom rifle builds has a feature or two that would make a traditionalist want to vomit. I'm just pretty square when it comes to rod features and prefer the classic look.

 

[krayfish]

Let us know how it goes.

 

[gutcutter]

Six-Gun wrote:
Based on the below criteria suggest a rod - manufacturer/model/length/action type - that you would consider in the $800 range. Know that a Waterworks-Lamson ULA Force SL reel has been purchased for whatever this will be paired with:

-4wt (not negotiable - I don't own one yet, so that's what I'm getting)

-Primarily for dry flies (I'm leaning more toward nice presentation over distance, but it must be vesatile enough to throw smaller wooly buggers and similar streamers)

- Primarily for small/medium water

You have limited yourself with the reel choice. Not a bad reel choice, but it is really lite - 2.95 oz.
The TMF is the best dry fly rod of all time. Period.
I have a ULA Purist (2.7 oz) and there is no balance whatsoever to the combo. I tried a Litespeed (3.45 oz). Still too light to balance it. I tried a Guru (4.7 oz), and it balances, but it is a low end reel and really ugly. Not "worthy" for that rod.
In the Winston line-up, the B3LS is your best bet. The heavier reelseat (walnut) will help by adding a bit of weight to balance it.
Take your reel to a shop and try it on a variety of rods that fit your wants and needs (there are plenty of choices in your price range).
You can't help but love the WT-TMF as a single duty dry fly rod. But it may not be the best in this case.

 

[Six-Gun]

gutcutter -

Thanks for the reply. That TMF really looks superb from a fit standpoint as far as what I'm after, but I absolutely want to know what the Boron III LS is brining to the table.

As far as balance goes (and I know that I am about to commit heresy here), after trying many different types of reels - from the clunky Bass Pro Hobbs Creek stuff to light and nimble reels like the Ross Evolution LT - I really put balance at the very bottom of my concerns when it comes to a reel. Overall carry weight and consistent drag performance are the two biggest factors for me when it comes to the reel. Because I constantly have to hike up and down Rocky Mountain ledges and faces all day while working creeks out here, carrying an ultralight package (typically with a shorter rod in 2wt or 3wt) makes a noticeable difference in my enjoyment over the course of an overnight camp/fish trip. I am willing to sacrifice a perfect balance for even a few ounces shaved in my package.

Speaking of which, I know I mentioned I was looking at a 9' setup earlier in this thread. The more we talk, the more an 8' sounds more up my alley.

 

[geebee]

I'd spend rthat $800 on a bamboo rod.

 

[krayfish]

Ok, I bit my tongue on the first post but now have to respond. If you read the OP, there is no mention or consideration of bamboo.....otherwise, he'd title the thread " help me waste $800 on a bamboo rod ".

 

[JackM]

Krayfish, when you go to send a PM, make sure the recipient is correctly identified. Often, for no apparent reason, it fills in the recipient as "007troutman" which is the first username in the database by alpha/numeric sort. I have no idea why this occurs, but I bet his/her Inbox is full by now.

 

[geebee]

krayfish wrote:
Ok, I bit my tongue on the first post but now have to respond. If you read the OP, there is no mention or consideration of bamboo.....otherwise, he'd title the thread " help me waste $800 on a bamboo rod ".

Okay sorry. He did mention dry flies though so I thought....

 

[Six-Gun]

Bamboo didn't honestly cross my mind because, well, I have no clue what I'd be looking for in that arena. I have tried lots of graphite rods in various actions, but have never touched bamboo. Also, pricing them, it seems I would just barely be touching a mid-entry level rod for $800 with the more expensive options breaking $2K.

 

[krayfish]

Buy a used one at a garage sale for $10. After you decide you hate it, you've only invested $10 instead of $1000.

 

[Six-Gun]

Heh - not a bad plan, at least to give one a try for less that the cost of gas to get to my fishing spot.

 

[tridentfly]

Going back the original question, the best dry fly rods out there IMO are:
- Loomis NRX LP
- Sage Circa
- Winston B3x
- Scott G2 (I haven't cast the Radian in a 4wt)

All are best in an 8'6" or similar size.

All will vary slightly in style, but they are very high performance rods.

The Hardy Zenith is also a nice, more all-around, option, but I find it a tad fast for dries.

RE: The WinstonB3 LS - it is a nice rod (the next gen of the B2t), but it requires a slow(er) casting stroke.

 

[LetortAngler]

I just lived your similar scenario trying to make my mind up on a dry rod, I was between the Superfine Touch and the Helios 2 by Orvis, and everyone and there mother except a few was for the H2, but the H2 is abit stiffer (faster action) than the Superfine and can cast farther not to mention all my rods are fast action and I wanted a delicate Full Flex rod. I got the superfine and it arrived last week, a 4weight and it casts great and lands drys deliactely even with a WF line, best rod IMO for dries. I've tested it for a week now and it hasn't disappointed. But always test it before you buy it... Also, if you get an Orvis rod , you can hang on to it for 30 days, and if you don't like it you can send it back for something different.

 

[LetortAngler]

Six-Gun, if the streams you fish are big , than a 9ft would seem right, but if your fishing smaller streams, give a shorter rod a try and you just might never look at a 9ft the same..

 

[pcray1231]

Buy a used one at a garage sale for $10. After you decide you hate it, you've only invested $10 instead of $1000.

^^^Sure way to ensure you'll hate it.^^^

I could just as easily say to buy the Snoopy rod from Walmart and try it out to see if you like graphite, no?

Seriously, though, it's true in all rods, but especially bamboo and glass, that you can occasionally find some sweet sticks for dirt cheap, or you can spend a lot on a rod and find out you don't like it. There's a correlation between price and quality, but it's nowhere near a perfect one.

Nomatter what material you choose, TRY IT FIRST.

While I'm mainly a graphite guy I do have a good bamboo rod that I like very much and, for me, fits the very niche you are after. It's not my small stream, brush busting rod. It's not my best streamer tossing or high stick nymphing rod either (though it has done these). But when chasing hatches on medium to large (by PA standards) waters, when I expect to be tossing dries, it's my go-to. It's medium-fast by graphite standards, which is "fast" for boo. It throws a fair bit of line well, though if you're really trying to stretch your distance casting abilities it does fall short of a good, fast graphite rod. But at normal fishing distances it feels great, and I think it's a bit more accurate than equivalent graphite rods.

The one thing with boo that took some getting used to was the weight. Mine is a 8 ft 5 wt. 8 ft is LONG for a boo. And it is heavy. When I first started using it, my arm got tired quickly. But I quickly realized that a heavy rod needs a heavy reel to balance. Modern reels are made for graphite. It's not the overall weight, it's that a front heavy rod has a lot of momentum which you're constantly fighting against in the course of casting. When I added lead to the reel to bring the balance point back towards my hand, it helped a lot.

 

[Six-Gun]

Great inputs all around. Thanks to all of your for your replies. The more I look at it, the more I may have to suck up a 3-hour drive to California to hit a dealer that has enough in-store options in what I'm asking about to actually cast in-person. There's simply nowhere near here to do this and I guess I have to look at the gas burned as an otherwise cheap insurance policy to ensure that I like what I ultimately buy.

Based on what I've read, I'd like to clarify a few things:

Tridentfly:
The Circa is one of my original considerations. However, I see on your site that you call it a fast action, but Sage is referring to it as a "modern slow-action." Do you consider this a faster action rod than Sage is advertising or is that a simple misprint?

Also, I notice that some of the choices folks are suggesting are more reflective of faster action trends in graphite rods. This is where my ignorance comes into play. Up to now, I've been told that as a rule of thumb, a slower action dry fly rod along with double taper line is an ideal dry fly setup. Is that not a good rule to follow anymore/old timer talk? In other words, can a modern fast action rod serve just as well for great presentation as an older-style slow action?

LetortAngler:
To clarify my rod length choice, I have backed off of my original requirement that the rod be closer to the 9' range. The more I think about, the more insane I think I am for wanting a rod that long given the streams that I fish. I constantly find myself needing less by way of casting distance and more by way of NOT getting hung up in trees and tall shrubs along the creek bank. This is why a few folks have noted that I make a lot of use of my 6' and 7' light lineweight rods in my fishing reports. I'm looking more and more likely to get a 8' or even 7'6" if the option is there.

 

[gfen]

Six-Gun wrote:
Up to now, I've been told that as a rule of thumb, a slower action dry fly rod along with double taper line is an ideal dry fly setup.

The line's taper doesn't matter. Its going to be the exact same.

Dry fly rods were always faster rods when dealing with older fishing; this helped dry the fly on casting, as well as setting the hook.

However, all modern graphite rods are inherently stiffer than older materials. You want a medium-fast rod if you plan to fish water that's less than 60' wide primarily.

Fast, stiff, rods are great for throwing long distances and punching through wind but not so great for protecting fine tippet you use with small dry flies or casting up close without specialty extra heavy lines.

Feel is subjective. YMMV.

 

[Six-Gun]

Thanks, Gfen. That's exactly the info I was after.

 

[afishinado]

gfen wrote:

Six-Gun wrote:
Up to now, I've been told that as a rule of thumb, a slower action dry fly rod along with double taper line is an ideal dry fly setup.

The line's taper doesn't matter. Its going to be the exact same.

Dry fly rods were always faster rods when dealing with older fishing; this helped dry the fly on casting, as well as setting the hook.

However, all modern graphite rods are inherently stiffer than older materials. You want a medium-fast rod if you plan to fish water that's less than 60' wide primarily.

Fast, stiff, rods are great for throwing long distances and punching through wind but not so great for protecting fine tippet you use with small dry flies or casting up close without specialty extra heavy lines.

Feel is subjective. YMMV.

^ It took 11,001 posts, but well said, Gary.

 

[krayfish]

I'll strongly urge you to not put much weight on the posts that read " the X model rod with a double taper will land the fly like a butterfly with sore feet ". It is not the rod but the caster that makes the cast. I think what Gary mentions is pretty spot on. You will have rods with a stiff tip, stiff mid section and / or stiff but. The softer tip makes fishing in closer easier and more accurate but it can also be done with a stiff tip rod when given to a good caster. GO TRY RODS. See what fits you style of casting and preference for feel. I'm not an Orvis fan but going to one of their dealers will give you the chance to cast a tip flex, mid flex and full flex model. You will form your own opinion very quickly. I'm pretty sure I could go e old lefty a WF9 and he'll land the fly softly. It's just as much the casting stroke and leader construction for 'soft landing casts'

To respond to pcrays bamboo posting......wooden golf clubs are pretty to look at but not practical to play. If your bamboo rod gets heavy after casting it for an hour, why would you even use it? If you were at an evemt celebrating the heritage of the sport, fine but for actual fishing, why use inferior / outdated gear?

Tom, hopefully I haven't broken my streak of worthless posts. LMAO