Heavy Penns Brown

BrookieChaser wrote:


On rainbows, I've caught more this year than any other. There seems to be a concentration of them around Coburn. I caught 6" ones with parr marks up to 12" ones. Hopefully they'll be brown trout food this winter.

Thanks Chaser,

I believe elk/pine owned by a man named troy ( nice guy ), stocked the living heck out of his land with them. I believe that is where they are coming from.

Could they be coming from the PFBC, possibly, but 24" hogs on a normal basis showing up all over? ehh, I think the hogs are originating from elk/pine.
 
Just an observation I had, what are your thoughts?

You may be right on Penns, I'm not sure. I certainly think you're right on other streams. On many NC freestoners for example, the status quo is that the upper ends are cold and full of trout, and the lower ends warm and full of bass. Generally the largest trout are found in the transition region. I believe it's precisely because of what you are saying, there are very few coolwater refuges to oversummer, and larger trout dominate them. The rest of the year you have a largish stream with more food than fish. Hence, the few fish grow big easily.

Penns doesn't fit the mold easily, though. It doesn't fit many molds easily, so what else is new? There's a boatload of food, and if you just look at the # of fish/food ratio, it's actually underpopulated all the time. There are tons of biggish fish, but what it seems to lack is many true trophies (20+ inches). Not saying there's none, of course, but your chances of catching an 18 incher on Penns are FAR higher than on Spring Creek, for instance, and it ain't close. But your chances of catching a 23 incher is probably higher on Spring.

(we're talking truly wild fish, not counting the hogs that are stocked by various entities in either system)

So why does Penns grow so many approaching that 20" mark, and few over, whereas Spring grows relatively few large fish but those that do can get very large? I don't know. My guess was temps. I could be wrong. I've thought about other explanations. Maybe that Penns abundance of food is limited to bug life, which doesn't grow trophies like baitfish do? But Penns is pretty full of baitfish too, I'd say moreso than Spring, so strike that. Maybe Spring's fish migrate? But, we're talking above Bellefonte here, and there's that pesky dam that I don't think any fish are getting over. Harvest? Maybe from Poe to Coburn, but not in the C&R section. Pressure? No way, Spring gets way more pressure per acre of water.

Age? I think it's clear they grow quicker in Penns than in Spring, so if it's age it would mean that Spring Creek fish are capable of, at least on occasion, growing older (which I think is true). Why is what we're asking.

Maybe it's just because there are a lot of biggish fish? It's relatively easy for monsters to dominate a cold water refuge, or a prime feeding lie, when a bunch of dinks are around them. The commoners don't mess with the king. But maybe a little harder to dominate when there is an abundance of princes? Hence more substantial competition leads to less time on the throne?
 
Stenonema wrote: The potential of these fish is unrealized. Could Spring creek be an example of where this genetic once existed but has been devastated or others that have been once filled with large wild browns?

I can say with 100% surety that Spring and Penns would have had native runs of brook trout, running from trib to stream, to river to sea - so called coasters and salters in Canada.

96% of PA was in its native range.


PC - i would suspect you are right. temps & food. penns warms in the summer doesn't it ? spring is cooler in summer and warmer in winter ?

i'd also think that structure or lack of, determines how many 'big girls' a river can hold too.

the Test, Avon, Kennet and the Itchen are fantastically rich streams, but unlike their American counterparts, they have very little natural structure as a result of low energy - largeish, slow, steady flows, and they run over soft chalk (no rocks), so the holding pools are limited to hatch and mill pools (ie man made),

so while there are thousands of fish to 18" there are very few over, but what there are can be 22"+ (4lbs in old money).

 
Fantastic fish and photos. Looks like heaven.
 
Heberly, Congratulations on a heck of a nice fish! And your work with a camera is pretty damn good too!
 
I believe elk/pine owned by a man named troy ( nice guy ), stocked the living heck out of his land with them. I believe that is where they are coming from.

Could they be coming from the PFBC, possibly, but 24" hogs on a normal basis showing up all over? ehh, I think the hogs are originating from elk/pine.



I believe that you will find that Troy's last name is Beaver
 
seeing this fish up close and personal that day. I was totally convinced it was 24".. certainly not bigger.. I've catch 22" fish before.. 1 made it to my wall because it expired after fighting it so long on a small stream. (long story)

an accurate measurement would put that fish between 20 and 24 and what a day that way :)
 
I was going to bring up the name of "da beaver" but got beat to it. Doesn't the club have property over there. I'd guess that's where the bows are coming from.

What we generally consider marginal water is where many giants are found. The lower section of the D warms into the upper 70's regularly. Fish numbers aren't big but size is. Just another example of trout survival in areas where we'd think it would be impossible for them to live. Fish everywhere....you might be amazed at what you find.
 
You do understand that Troy Beaver is donny beaver's son and that you're talking about homewaters, aka spring ridge, fish, don't you? (And yes, Troy is indeed a nice young man.)
 
rrt wrote:
You do understand that Troy Beaver is donny beaver's son and that you're talking about homewaters, aka spring ridge, fish, don't you? (And yes, Troy is indeed a nice young man.)
]

Ok? I was not aware of the relationship there. I only knew him by 'Troy'

I have a close friend who I fish with regularly. One day the friend says to me, hey, I know the owner of this land, and he told me I could fish there, so long as no other club member was fishing that day. So, we pulled up at his house, troy was home, but the father came out.

He was very polite, spoke with us, told us a 32" fish was just caught by Humphreys, etc etc.

Said feel free to fish today, if a club member comes you will have to leave.

So we did. I recall my friend tossing a streamer into an undercut bank on the first cast and nailing a large trout that jumped out of the water, very large.

I was taking my time, sort of taking it all in, I had pine on one side, elk on the other within a stones throw, and frankly, I didn't really want to fish, I just wanted to look. I walked back to pine, right before it enters elk, and it was packed with trout, black streaks of them. Fantastic sight to see.
 
I caught one large rainbow in Penns several years ago. Figured it had roamed downstream from Beaver's private water. It was in the C&R section so I had to put it back.

Heberly - you started this post with a photo of a beautiful fish you caught in open water. I'm sure you agree that was a far better experience than fishing over private water "packed with trout." That fantastic sight was made possible by stocking.

Anyone else notice rrt hasn't been around for awhile but the minute the Beav is mentioned he posts a reply? lol.
 
McSneek wrote:
I caught one large rainbow in Penns several years ago. Figured it had roamed downstream from Beaver's private water. It was in the C&R section so I had to put it back.

Heberly - you started this post with a photo of a beautiful fish you caught in open water. I'm sure you agree that was a far better experience than fishing over private water "packed with trout." That fantastic sight was made possible by stocking.

Anyone else notice rrt hasn't been around for awhile but the minute the Beav is mentioned he posts a reply? lol.

Yes, this is true. I was a guest, and enjoyed the 'sight' but catching stocked fish like that, eh? I am 100% with you.

I was not aware I was on a beaver property, how about that!
 
krayfish2 wrote:. Fish everywhere....you might be amazed at what you find.

yup, who knows where a cool spring might be to provide a small thermocline for a lunker to sit in during summer days while he waits for cooler nights to feed on shrews, mice and baitfish....

 
Heberly wrote:

I was not aware I was on a beaver property, how about that!

I like John Geirachs take on it - if invited to fish private club water, you should accept but feel slightly guilty in doing so - but you should fish it..... ;-)

ie don't look a gifthorse etc.
 
My experience with Troy's father was quite different than yours.
 
I would actually find that a terrible sight. Chalk full of monster stockers stacked like cordwood? We ain't talkin about a ditch here. We're talking 2 of the better limestoners in the state, that should instead have plenty of wild fish. Oh, and navigable too. Saying you'd have to leave if a club member comes is illegal, as so long as you stay below the high water mark you have a right to be there.
 
You're telling me elk and pine are navigable by state laws?
 
Real nice brown, nice job. Winter is an awesome time to be on the water. Congratulations on a real sweet trout....
 
How sad to see all the posters on Elk and Pine.

"You're telling me elk and pine are navigable by state laws?"

YEAH! Let's get this topic going again. Would someone be willing to test this "navigable water" thing on Elk and Pine? I would like to hear how someone makes out in court when you go on those posted sections.
 
lv2nymph wrote:
Real nice brown, nice job. Winter is an awesome time to be on the water. Congratulations on a real sweet trout....

Thank you :)
 
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