From our friends at Sage

[afishinado]

gfen wrote:

afishinado wrote:
More mass = more weight, and more weight is a PITA to FISH with, IMO. I enjoy casting and fishing light weight rods.....thank you very much.

Downlocking reel seats....pooh! The lightweight rods of today balance better/easier with uplocking reels seats. Also, a bonus is you tuck the butt of the rod against your body when reeling w/o the reel bumping up against you.

I'd give up FFing if I had to fish one of G's precious Medalist reels....on a downlocking reel seat, yet! It would be twice as butt-heavy as jLo.

As always, YMMV.

You're smarter than this, which leads me to believe you're simply trolling for effect. Fair enough.

That said, you're wrong and I'm not motivated to explain why mostly because I don't care. And, to combat any future smugness in which you attempt to utilize sales figures, to that I say, "pet rocks were also wildly successful."

Good luck with your endeavours.

Yup, just funning you G.

But I really don't get it. What is the advantage of a downlocking reel seat?

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear afish,

To me the advantage of a downlocking reel seat is the fact that the line almost never can get caught between the end of the rod and rear of the reel foot.

There really doesn't appear to be much standardization between manufacturers when it comes to the length of the reel seat and the overall length of the reel foot.

I have a 7'6" Redington 4 weight rod with an uplocking reel seat. When I mount my Gunnison 1 on it by the time the threads on the reel seat are firmly holding the reel in place there is almost 2 inches of the butt of the rod extended behind the reel. When I mount the same reel on a Sage 4 weight I have it is more like 1 inch.

That extra inch has the annoying ability to often grab the line when I let go of it from my off hand as a shoot a cast causing the cast to either go astray or stop dead.

I know that with a more conscious effort at line control with my off hand that I can reduce the likelyhood of that happening but it's still a PITA and something that doesn't happen at all with a downlocking seat, or some of my other rods equipped with uplocking seats.

I do not think that the balance or swing weight issues that some people talk about when comparing uplocking and downlocking seats are anything to worry about. I can easily compensate for them. I do however hate the magic hand that grabs the line and wraps it around the reel seat with a passion.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[gfen]

afishinado wrote:
But I really don't get it. What is the advantage of a downlocking reel seat?

None, really. But the foot bone's connected to the leg bone.

It comes back to ergonomics, which is what Sage is pushing hard with their whatever-they-call-it cork shape.

Downlocking reel seats don't require a palm swell to hide the "hidden top" of an uplocking seat. No palm swell means better ergonomics, less fatigue and a gentle reinforcement of a proper grip (cigar grips also lack the palm swell, but I have an unfortunate tendency to spine the blank with my index, I'm sure I'm not the only one).

What Sage is suggesting here is a Half Wells grip, somewhat extended to try and cover for inevitable palm swell for the hidden top ring. A downlocking seat would've allowed proper rear taper of the grip and kept the swell in the middle, exactly where your hand demands it.

 

[pete41]

Sorry G-but your argument Doesn't sell- if you're grasping the rod at the bottom of the grip instead of the top you have a poorly balanced outfit.Snicker time.
"Hey ,look at that dude,fishing with the poorly balanced outfit".
As Hewitt said there is no need to look like a bum[or beginner], astream.

could be wrong .lol

 

[WildTigerTrout]

pete41 wrote:
Ah yes,bamboo and glass,now that's truly a weighty subject

Weighty maybe, but if balanced correctly I don't mind the extra weight. In fact it feels better IMO than some of the real lightweights. Also the casts are VERY smooth.

 

[gfen]

Unless you have tiny midget hands, Peter, your will be required to place your hand in the middle of the grip.

Convienetly, all popular forms of rod grip except a straight cigar, have a lovely swell in the middle that interfaces nicely with the divot of your hand.

The failing is the Western and the Full Wells both have palm swells that force a wrist angle that isn't correct, and certainly not for a "precision rod." The wrist angle may coincide nicely with helping you drive your wrist and arm for power, I don't have the authority to weigh in on that, but it is certainly more fatiguing than one which is ergonomcially designed.

Sage has shown us the front swell of a half-wells is right. They've certainly driven rod design and developmetn heavily as befits their place as top of the heap (for better or worse), but they done buyers a disservice by utilizing an uplocking seat which fit the hand as well as it could.

Hold your hand sideways, cocked towards you as if you were holding a rod. Now, open the fingers slightly so you can see the natural curve of your thumb and hand and the way your fingers naturally fall into line.

The rear swell forces one's hand uncomfortably by turning your wrist slightly.

To put it simply, rod construction might be acheiveing higher levels of technology, but they figured out the shape your hand goes along time ago.

 

[bikerfish]

WildTigerTrout wrote:

bikerfish wrote:
because bamboo and glass are dead and no good fish would ever take a fly presented by such equipment ;-)

My first trout this year on a size 24 trico was caught on June 23rd with my 1970 vintage fiberglass Phillipson DF76 "Swamp Fox". IMO it is really fun to fish with older fly tackle. Bamboo and glass are far from dead sir.

guess you've never seen any of the crap I fish with! 90% is vintage stuff, the new stuff is all glass.

 

[turkey]

gfen wrote:
Unless you have tiny midget hands

Also, dude, tiny midget hands is not the preferred nomenclature. Little people, please.

 

[pete41]

actually it should be "grasp disadvantaged ".

 

[greenghost]

New Sages are NOT worth it. They are simply too pricy. Don't get me wrong. I have two Sage rods. But I bought them used. My favorite is an old VPS, made in the 90s. It's considered medium-fast. (More medium than fast.) But even then, I bought it used. I simply cannot afford new Sages anymore. They priced themselves into the high-end category and slammed the door in my face.

It used to be there was little choice. You could go with cheap -- in price and quality-- rods that cast like crap. And then there were the more expensive rods that were top choice, like Sage or Scott.

NOT ANYMORE. Today there are SO MANY rods that cast just as sweet as a Sage and are inexpensive to boot. For example, my all-time favorite brookie stream rod is a Cortland GRX 7.5' 4 weight. imo, fishes better than my Sage VPS and it cost me about $90, new.

SAGE is a great rod maker. But if money were no object, I still don't think I would be buying them. There are simply too many other great, and much more prudent, choices.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

bikerfish wrote:

WildTigerTrout wrote:

bikerfish wrote:
because bamboo and glass are dead and no good fish would ever take a fly presented by such equipment ;-)

My first trout this year on a size 24 trico was caught on June 23rd with my 1970 vintage fiberglass Phillipson DF76 "Swamp Fox". IMO it is really fun to fish with older fly tackle. Bamboo and glass are far from dead sir.

guess you've never seen any of the crap I fish with! 90% is vintage stuff, the new stuff is all glass.

Just because it is vintage does not mean it is "crap". My old Phillipson is a good example. I love fiberglass both old and new. It sounds like you do too. ;-)

 

[bikerfish]

Term of endearment

 

[WildTigerTrout]

bikerfish wrote:
Term of endearment

Well since you put it in those terms I guess I like fishing with "Crap" too. :lol:

 

[Smike]

Fully 20 years ago nobody wanted anything nostalgic (old tech =crap) now everyone feels technology has become too overbearing and feels the need to go back in time. Hell even black socks are back in style.

As Yvon Chouinard puts it with ditching all the latest tech fly rods to go off and use a $150 Tenkara Rod, $15 in line, and 3-4 flies.

“turn around and take a forward”

and hes right.

 

[Ramcatt]

don't bring Tendkadraada in to this

you can't get any trendier than that

 

[gfen]

just because you are stuck in your western mentality ways of complexitiy and complicated western systems, rammcatt, is no reason to reject the zen like sublime simplicity of ancient japanese Tenkada arts of fly fishing.

one can assume a samurai like code of piscine bushido, a zen like mind slate of less is more, armed with a humble container of sakasa kebari, i am able to focus on using my katana of trout catching, i focus my chi and propel it through the supple graphite of tenkara rod, and i can make my kebari dance to trout delight.

you, clearly, are of a western mindset, too stuck in your material trappings to understand one can free themselves of the reel shackle, than when you embrace Tenkara, you are the ninja of the stream. as i am. humble i am to fish, understanding only my Tenkara rod and my humble, furled line and ancient one fly way.

I am a predator, and all fish succumb to me like wheat before the scythe.

Free your mind, rammcatt.

 

[afishinado]

Agreed, western guys like Rammy (west of Harrisburg I would say) have closed minds. Carry on.

Edit: Link to more "info" http://castingaround.anthonynaples.com/tag/sakasa-kebari

 

[Ramcatt]

gfen wrote:
...a humble container of sakasa kebari...Free your mind, rammcatt.

will i pass a drug test?

 

[pete41]

cane poles do a have a nostalgic image.So do trikes.

 

[JJZ]

Ninety five percent of my fishing is with a cane flyrod and silkline. I am not trying to embody or hang onto some form of elitist status or like, but I simply find it is the best tool. How much more apache helicopter technology can a flyrod absorb and translate into performance on the water.....Kinda like how many licks it takes to find the center of a tootsie pop.

I love graphite on lakes, saltwater and some ponds....everything for me has it's place.