First good numbers day of the year

[Swattie87]

k-bob wrote:
five brookies on an AMD stream not on the nat repro list can seem like a lot.

Indeed…some of my favorite moments Brookie fishing are finding them in places where you don’t think they’d be.

I know a few obvious historic AMD streams with no remediation systems on them that have been repopulated with Brookies from further downstream in the watershed. A couple of them are even what I’d call “pretty good.” I know for a fact one was a very high class C at its last survey and I suspect another is even better than that one. I really like these kinds of streams…shows nature healing and how tough Brookies are.

 

[k-bob]

yes, go to a class a brookie stream and you expect to find a lot of trout, try an AMD stream not even on the natural reproduction list, and you hope to find a few...

 

[pcray1231]

k-bob, I don't have and hard info regarding streams which suffer from AMD and acid rain simultaneously. But my speculation follows.

My basic thought is that acid rain abatement isn't going to affect the pH of the AMD discharge at all. The acid comes from rock, not from sky. Coal, pyrite, etc. have lots of sulphur, which when exposed to water, creates sulfuric acid.

Near the AMD sites, where the flow from the discharge is a significant % of the total flow, the effects of the AMD acid far outweigh anything regarding acid rain. Acid rain abatement is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound with internal organ damage. You're kind of missing the point.

But in areas, say, where "clean" tribs have diluted the AMD effects (we'll call them "marginally AMD affected"), then yeah, having all of those tribs a little less acidic could mean the dilution effect is greater, and result in a better stream. And realistically, probably all of your AMD trout streams fit this description, as "pure" AMD streams are pretty dead.

Aluminum is merely 1 metal that comes with AMD. Perhaps it's the most significant one, you probably know that better than I. Again, acid rain would not affect the total amount present, it all comes from underground. But the lower the pH, the HIGHER the solubility of aluminum (and most metals) in water. So as the pH rises in a stream, due to dilution from runoff or tribs, MORE of it precipitates out.

Is it worse for the fish if it's precipitated out, or worse in solution? I dunno. And you're not affecting the total amount that precipitates out, you're just affecting WHERE it happens. The primary precipitation area moves upstream.

 

[k-bob]

copied from the internet of course:

"A reduction in pH (more acidic) may allow the release of toxic metals that would otherwise be absorbed to sediment and essentially removed from the water system. ... For example, a decrease in pH values may release aluminum... Thus, a decrease in pH increases metal availability, lending itself to greater metal uptake by organisms. Metal uptake can cause extreme physiological damage to aquatic life (Connell et al., 1984)."

I think this suggests that less acidic rain might be associated with more brookies in AMD streams that have a few fish now?

 

[pcray1231]

This is pickup to begin with. Acidic water has higher metal solubility. So when it comes in contact with aluminim bearing rock, for instance, it absorbs the aluminum, thus bringing it to the surface. And when a higher pH stream runs in and dilutes the pH, it's supersaturated, and aluminum falls out.

But again, the acid from AMD is picked up underground, from rock. Acid rain doesn't affect it. And the aluminum is also picked up underground. So acid rain doesn't affect that either. Which means, without remediation, the discharge from an AMD site is essentially FIXED in regards to pH and aluminum, and every other metal. Acid rain abatement doesn't change a thing regarding the AMD discharge itself.

That said, ONCE it's on the surface, and it picks up shallow springs, runoff, and non-AMD streams, how acidic those streams are may be a function of acid rain. And thus it can perhaps affect how quickly the stream "recovers" downstream from the discharge. Recovery meaning both a raising of the pH and the metals precipitating out and falling to the stream bottom. Less acid rain may mean that all occurs closer to the AMD discharge, helping downstream areas. A gradual improvement of acid rain could lead to a gradual upstream progression of the boundary between habitable and inhabitable zones. But further improvement becomes more and more difficult as you approach the AMD discharge. You gotta treat the discharge to overcome it.

 

[k-bob]

"Less acid rain may mean that all occurs closer to the AMD discharge, helping downstream areas. A gradual improvement of acid rain could lead to a gradual upstream progression of the boundary between habitable and inhabitable zones. But further improvement becomes more and more difficult as you approach the AMD discharge. You gotta treat the discharge to overcome it."

My current favorite AMD stream is largely formed by an AMD discharge tunnel about two miles from the nice rocky pools where I fish it. I don't like the flat wide channel betwen the discharge and the pools. Some treatment efforts up there, but it isn't easy.

If the browns can take over Tumbling Run, maybe more brookies will be in the AMD stream!

http://northchick.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/NCC-Fish-Study_MSchorr-JBacker-2006.pdf

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Yesterday I had 13 trout get accustomed to my net. Had 19 on for the day using a BH Pheasant #12 or #14. It was great...Hope today is just as good.

 

[SBecker]

Caught close to 30 on this fly. Decided to retire it after it stopped floating. Best day of the year so far for me. All fish were over 9 inches as well.

 

[pcray1231]

Congrats, Becker. Stocked or unstocked?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Jordon Creek, opening day ;-)

 

[SBecker]

I say of the 30+ I caught, 2 brookies that were pushing 12 inches were possible holdovers. They had perfect fins, but it is kinda hard to say brookies that large were not stocked at one time in another trib and did not migrate to this stream. Everything else was wild browns and native brookies. Actually I lied, I forgot a fished a very small brook, brown and rainbow stream late in the day and caught 2 browns that were about 6 inches. Was fishing that stream in hopes of a wild bow for the wild trifecta. Here is my biggest for the day, 14inches..........

Forgot I took a pic with my buddies phone of the big brookie. You guys tell me what you think.

 

[pcray1231]

Brown = definitely wild. Brookie = definitely stocked (likely freshly stocked).

Don't think there's much doubt on either, both pretty typical specimens. Nice fish.

 

[Van_Cleaver]

I also had my first real day of fly fishing resulting in good numbers; not sure but twenty or better. Despite the fact that it was the Little Lehigh, most of the fish I caught and missed were stream bred browns; way more than I've ever see there in the past, with several year classes represented. In addition it was windy with no big hatches, and almost no risers. Best fish 13''; yeah I got some bigger rainbows but they didn't mean much to me. Got a couple decent pix; apologies if you already saw them:

 

[SBecker]

I trust ya Pcray in regards to the brookie. Now, I will disagree on the recently stocked part. What do you see on the fish that screams recently stocked? Colors?

 

[pcray1231]

Colors are rather bland. Anal and caudal fins are opaque. White and black lines on fins poorly defined. All fins frayed up pretty bad. Size, at least at first glance, appears to be typical stocky size. Body shape rather football like, with small head, indicates a rather young fish that was well fed and grew quickly.

It's certainly stocked, it has pretty much every one of the "stocked" indicators in spades. Not saying it couldn't be a holdover, but based on a picture alone, I see nothing indicating that it is. Most holdovers are noticably longer as a result of living another year, take on better color (especially pink in the belly) and slim down considerably, though the fin factors are often still there after a year in the stream. This one just looks like your every day stocked brook trout to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

As Mike recently pointed out with the residency studies that brookies travel the farthest. And I've commonly caught stocked brookies miles from the nearest place where brookies are stocked. Usually downstream. If they don't stock brookies there, he likely came from upstream, maybe a trib that is stocked?

 

[SBecker]

Pm incoming! Lol

 

[pcray1231]

I'm less in doubt after the PM. Stocked brookie, this year's.....

 

[Cosmic_Nick]

Damn Pcray sounds like you had a good day I coudnt imagine a day that good man!

 

[Gorosaurus]

First good number day of my PA career!

I have caught good numbers before, but my definition of good would be 5-7.

Today I tried to get to Clarks Creek to enjoy the fresh stocking. Didn't make it out until noon. However.. as I expected, the dumping holes were over-filled with spinners. I ended up fishing an empty section that I hadn't had luck in during past expeditions - I honestly didn't think wild fish were even there.

Wow, was I wrong! I brought at least 12 to hand today, and was really close on a bunch of others. Had two very decent fish fight and win. 50% of my catch was clearly wild, and an additional 30% was long-term holdover.

Tan caddis was the ticket! The ugly nymphs I have tied were doing pretty well also!



My adventures today reminded me of how much fun it is to fish in Idaho! Find some good riffles, cast in/near them, and watch tons of fish go for your dry!