Competition Fishers here?

[wgmiller]

csoult wrote:
It may be relaxing for you and that's why you do it. It may be competitive for Shane and that why he does it. It may be that competition relaxes me and that's why I do it.

Intollerance of other peoples ways is a sad way to go through life, always worried about what the others are doing. Unless it hurts someone else.... Who cares.

Couldn't agree more. To each his own. It's the same as the whole spin versus fly debate. If we all did the same thing for the same reason, life would be pretty dull.

 

[ryguyfi]

Good thing we took the OP's request of not turning this into a debate...

 

[The_Sasquatch]

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
I say put one comp on the letort then we will see who the better fishermen is. Stocking comps are a joke. IMO compete on the toughest stream there is and you will see who's good and who isn't.

I wouldn't do that to the Letort.

 

[troutbert]

The_Sasquatch wrote:

IdratherbePhishing wrote:
I say put one comp on the letort then we will see who the better fishermen is. Stocking comps are a joke. IMO compete on the toughest stream there is and you will see who's good and who isn't.

I wouldn't do that to the Letort.

Or Spring Creek. Or Fishing Creek. Or...

 

[pcray1231]

PennKev,

1. I'm not saying I'm deficient in the skills you are aiming at. I'm not sure that I'm competition quality, but I do ok.

And yes, I do find those skills to be important. I'm not downplaying that. It's just that, to me, it's only a part of what it takes to be a good overall fishermen.

If 2 guys take a fishing trip to central PA, with the same home base. Guy #1 goes to Penns Creek all day, and nymphs up 4 during the afternoon, then catches 8 more during the evening hatch. Guy #2 goes elsewhere, and catches 5 brownies and 15 brookies during the day, then winds up at Penns Creek for the evening hatch and manages 5 more.

Who's the better fisherman? Side by side, when facing the same situation, guy #1 caught more fish. And this may be more or less repeatable. But, guy #2 caught more fish and overall had a better day, because he could predict what streams would fish best at various times of the day. This too may be more or less repeatable.

IMO, guy #2 is the better overall fisherman.

Yes, fishing is very much like a golf course where you can play any hole you want. That's the reality, is it not? When you plan your "for fun" fishing days, are you held to go to an exact spot at an exact time? Heck no.

You can choose anywhere you want. Within your alotted time, you can adjust times too. Say, go here at this time, go here at this time. And your decisions will play a HUGE role in your success on that day, will they not?

Hence, a large part of being a good fisherman is putting yourself in situations to succeed. Where you go may depend on the season, weather, hatches, flows, etc.

Being a good fisherman is 70% about managing a billion variables and putting yourself in the best situation to succeed. It's 30% about succeeding once you get there. These comps only measure the 30%.

 

[pcray1231]

P.S. Bass fishing tournaments are more in the direction I am talking. Yeah, they have a home base that you leave from and have to return to by a certain time. But competitors are allowed to fish wherever they please, so long as they can reach it by boat or foot. They aren't held to fish this particular section at certain times.

For instance, for the Pittsburgh bass tournaments. They can fish the Yough, Kinzua tailrace, the Clarion, etc. Of course, the farther they go from downtown, the more time they spend travelling and the less time fishing, but that's part of it. And for me, when I watch those, I'm less interested in what lures they are using, or what techniques, and much more interested to see WHERE they go.

 

[wgmiller]

ryguyfi wrote:
Good thing we took the OP's request of not turning this into a debate...

Did you expect otherwise? :-D

 

[gfen]

pcray1231 wrote:
PennKev,

1. I'm not saying I'm deficient in the skills you are aiming at. I'm not sure that I'm competition quality, but I do ok.

And yes, I do find those skills to be important. I'm not downplaying that. It's just that, to me, it's only a part of what it takes to be a good overall fishermen.

If 2 guys take a fishing trip to central PA, with the same home base. Guy #1 goes to Penns Creek all day, and nymphs up 4 during the afternoon, then catches 8 more during the evening hatch. Guy #2 goes elsewhere, and catches 5 brownies and 15 brookies during the day, then winds up at Penns Creek for the evening hatch and manages 5 more.

Who's the better fisherman? Side by side, when facing the same situation, guy #1 caught more fish. And this may be more or less repeatable. But, guy #2 caught more fish and overall had a better day, because he could predict what streams would fish best at various times of the day. This too may be more or less repeatable.

IMO, guy #2 is the better overall fisherman.

Yes, fishing is very much like a golf course where you can play any hole you want. That's the reality, is it not? When you plan your "for fun" fishing days, are you held to go to an exact spot at an exact time? Heck no.

You can choose anywhere you want. Within your alotted time, you can adjust times too. Say, go here at this time, go here at this time. And your decisions will play a HUGE role in your success on that day, will they not?

Hence, a large part of being a good fisherman is putting yourself in situations to succeed. Where you go may depend on the season, weather, hatches, flows, etc.

Being a good fisherman is 70% about managing a billion variables and putting yourself in the best situation to succeed. It's 30% about succeeding once you get there. These comps only measure the 30%.

words words words words words better words words words skill words words words tactics words words measure words words who the words words words expletive word gives a words words expleteive words words words

in your attempt to make it something i don't know because words words words all you've done is makes it just as ridiculous. this applies to just about every post in this thread with an exception to a select few.

people take recreation entirely too seriously. have you considered a hobby to help you relax when you're not recreating?

 

[jdaddy]

pcray1231 wrote:
But competitors are allowed to fish wherever they please, so long as they can reach it by boat or foot.

Nit picking, but you cannot get out of the boat.

There were some circuit events a few years back where a limited number of anglers, say 20, were given 1 hour in a designated "hole" then they rotated clock wise. Much more similar to the troot thing. It did not last very long to my knowledge.

 

[PennKev]

pcray1231 wrote:
PennKev,

1. I'm not saying I'm deficient in the skills you are aiming at. I'm not sure that I'm competition quality, but I do ok.

And yes, I do find those skills to be important. I'm not downplaying that. It's just that, to me, it's only a part of what it takes to be a good overall fishermen.

I never said YOU were deficient at anything. I was merely pointing out the shortcomings of your proposed system.

pcray1231 wrote:
Being a good fisherman is 70% about managing a billion variables and putting yourself in the best situation to succeed. It's 30% about succeeding once you get there. These comps only measure the 30%.

And giving the angler the choice of where to fish only measures what that particular angler prefers. In the case of a national or world competition the anglers are all on more or less even footing as they are all more or less unfamiliar with a region except for the lucky ones whose home waters where chosen for the contest.

Being able to be put into a piece of water and catch fish there is far more difficult than being allowed to cherry pick where you fish. And as for golf, sure you can pick and chose what holes you play when you are just having fun, but you'll never get to PGA that way and don't expect any competitive players to take you seriously.

On a similar note, running off to beat up some brookies is a lot of fun, but don't expect a lot of praise from the guys who eeked out a handful of fish on the LeTort in the same length of time. It's not that they don't know that you can go catch numbers of brookies at times when fish in bigger water are off the feed, it's that they have CHOSEN to fish the more difficult situations. You may choose to go fish for brookies and do quite well but don't equate that with being somehow better than a guy who sticks with tougher water. There can be just as much enjoyment and satisfaction fishing difficult water as there can be from simply catching a lot of fish. Personally, I've largely given up fishing my local ATW's because there is simply no challenge in it anymore. I get more satisfaction catching 5-8 fish on Penns than 30+ at home.

Also, with your free range system, the method of scoring becomes problematic. How many points is a brookie worth? How about a LeTort brown? A spring Creek brown? It becomes like figure skating. Someone will decide their value in an arbitrary manner.

 

[Haywood]

The problem I have is you got guys who only have a few yrs under there belt in this sport. They enter a comp or two and now there experts. What ever happend to putting in your time and paying your dues before you can get the glory. There is a lot more to fly fishing then dragging heavy nymphs on the bottom with a hot spot and flashy ribbing. I'm sure the comps can be fun and you can learn a lot but I think some people let it go to there head. Just my opinion. I don't think its all bad.

 

[ryguyfi]

Would you enter a compitition just for fun or for charity?

Do you ever "compete" with friends while on the water? Ever make wagers?

 

[pcray1231]

Being able to be put into a piece of water and catch fish there is far more difficult than being allowed to cherry pick where you fish.

Yes, and no. Many people are better at cherry picking where they fish than others. To me, that is a highly valuable skill, and it takes a lot of work to figure it out.

And as for golf, sure you can pick and chose what holes you play when you are just having fun, but you'll never get to PGA that way and don't expect any competitive players to take you seriously.

Fishing is a game where you can't play 18 different holes in a day. What your comp is doing is telling everyone that they are being judged only on how they handle hole #8. That's all fine and good. But hole #8 might be a 130 yard par 3. Being best at a 130 yard par 3 does not make you the best overall golfer. It makes you the best at the short game. That is a part of being a good golfer. But only a part. You're eliminating other important skills from the competition.

It's not that they don't know that you can go catch numbers of brookies at times when fish in bigger water are off the feed, it's that they have CHOSEN to fish the more difficult situations.

I'm gonna disagree on what is more difficult! The scale of success may be different. Both can give you poor, average, or good days. But while on a brookie stream, an average day may be 5 or 10 times as many fish, average is average. You adjust expectations. An average day ranks average nomatter where you're at. But it takes a lot more time, knowledge, and effort to find a really good brookie stream, and get to it, than it does to know where to fish on a stream that's been written about thousands of times.

There can be just as much enjoyment and satisfaction fishing difficult water as there can be from simply catching a lot of fish.

Agreed. It's much more satisfying to locate a tiny stream on a Topo, that maybe the PFBC doesn't even list, bushwhack to get there, fight to cast to difficult spots in a rhodo tunnel, and catch 3 or 4 small brookies (thus proving they exist), than it is to go down the street to the famous limestoner and nymph up 8 nice trout for the billionth time.

but don't expect a lot of praise from the guys who eeked out a handful of fish on the LeTort in the same length of time.

If that's a good day for the Letort, I give them props. But, if the situation says the Letort is going to be sub-par that day, and the brookie streams are going to be way better than average, then they shouldn't expect any praise from me for being stupid enough to fish the Letort on that day.

Also, with your free range system, the method of scoring becomes problematic.

Agreed. You'd have to try to weight it so that an "average" day on any given water is given equal weight. Thus encouraging a variety of tactics, rather than everyone having the same thoughts on how to win.

 

[smgfish]

I wanted to see where this goes before weighing in: I comp fish and have been doing so for the last 4 years. It is a blast in my opinion and I'm not going to try and change anyone's mind. What I will say is if just dragging a heavy nymph in a hole was all it takes to win then I must be going to the world championships. NOT!!! It is a challenge.

Have you ever heard this saying EFORT = RESULTS the best and top anglers spend 1000s of hours honing their skills, and that is what makes them consistent and usually on top of the leader boards.

If you haven't fished a comp you should do so before expressing opinion's that just aren't true. The guys that fish the comps put their waders on just like everyone else and in my opinion are some of the most ethical helpful, courteous people on the streams. Yes always a bad apple or two however you can never get away from that. Just look at the attitudes on this board at times.

Give it a try or not you will be welcomed with open arms.

 

[tomitrout]

pcray:

If that's a good day for the Letort, I give them props. But, if the situation says the Letort is going to be sub-par that day, and the brookie streams are going to be way better than average, then they shouldn't expect any praise from me for being stupid enough to fish the Letort on that day.

Personally, I guess I'm an idiot then, 'cuz I'd be much, much, much more satisfied with catching a couple of Letort browns on a day when that stream is fishing tough compared to harassing know nothing brookies where my catch count is only limited by the amount of water I'm able to cover.

But I'm not a numbers guy like you and the number of fish I bring to hand ranks awfully low in my measure of 'success' on the water. Hell, success for me a lot of times is just getting a tough fish to take the dang fly after a difficult stalk and presentation. Fishing C&R, does it really matter if you bring the fish to hand?

I think the trout comps are novel and probably fun if that's your mindset, they fill a small niche in the big wide world of fishing, to each his own.

 

[mcwillja]

Thats a fair post and fair point of view smgfish. Tough to argue any of that and this comes from someone who is not a for or against comps, but leans towards against.

 

[TLoomis]

Man......tough crowd haha

 

[DGC]

As long as they don't skirt regs or interfere with the spawn, it's hard to find a rationale against. It's probably less pressure than Spring creek during the sulphurs or a PAFF jam. Less because their time on the water is limited from what I recall.

Edited to add:

If the PFBC approves these, there should be some standardized way of publicizing dates, locations, number of anlgers so that folks can plan accordingly. There may be other competitions beside Troutlegend and it would be difficult to search. The events section of this forum might be the place to do so.

 

[mikesl]

I think the point about avoiding judgements based on preconceived notions and no direct experience is always good to keep in mind.

 

[pcray1231]

To be clear:

1. I do not claim comp ffer's to in any way be unethical fishermen. Quite the contrary. I do agree all that I've met are among the most courteous, ethical anglers I know.

2. I do not think less of someone who enjoys comps. I'd enjoy it too, as I enjoy pretty much any type of fishing, and any type of sport.

3. I do not claim them to be easy, or require no effort. Competition generally increases the effort anyone puts into any activity. And I fully believe it WILL make you a better angler, or at least better at the type of angling they tend to focus on.

My point was merely, that, as I see it, they do a really nice job of measuring a particular skill set, while ignoring or outright eliminating other skill sets from the competition. Those others are just as necessary to be an all-around good fisherman.

^^And that doesn't mean the competitors don't have those skill sets, merely that the comps don't test them.