Competition Fishers here?

[sipe]

Thank you to those with relevant posts. I also speak "Crotchety" and you can kiss it if you think you can determine what the "whole point of it" is for me.

 

[PennKev]

slumdumb wrote:
put fish in bucket
dump bucket in stream
catch fish the next day
pat self on back


FLY FISHING CHAMPION!!!!

Not all FF competitions rely on stocking, but it seems a lot do. Particularly the smaller local events, "charity" events, and so forth.

I really don't see how competing to catch stockers proves anything or is any sort of accomplishment. Especially when it seems the waters selected for these events are usually re-seeded with stockies just prior to the event. Now, if the competitions are on waters that are managed for wild trout or at least not recently stocked for the event, that is different.

Either way, I don't have a problem with holding a competition as long as it is done responsibly. In fact, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at it sometime.

I do, however, have a huge problem with free-for-all, catch and kill "trout rodeos." Every aspect of these events seems contradictory to the mindset of those who actually love trout and trout fishing.

Kev

 

[gaeronf]

PennKev wrote:

slumdumb wrote:
put fish in bucket
dump bucket in stream
catch fish the next day
pat self on back


FLY FISHING CHAMPION!!!!

Not all FF competitions rely on stocking, but it seems a lot do. Particularly the smaller local events, "charity" events, and so forth.

I really don't see how competing to catch stockers proves anything or is any sort of accomplishment. Especially when it seems the waters selected for these events are usually re-seeded with stockies just prior to the event. Now, if the competitions are on waters that are managed for wild trout or at least not recently stocked for the event, that is different.

Either way, I don't have a problem with holding a competition as long as it is done responsibly. In fact, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at it sometime.

I do, however, have a huge problem with free-for-all, catch and kill "trout rodeos." Every aspect of these events seems contradictory to the mindset of those who actually love trout and trout fishing.

Kev

Perhaps I am completely wrong, so hopefully Shane or someone who knows better can weigh in. To the extent of my knowledge, I do not think many competitions have stockings right before they are held. Sure, some streams do have stocked fish, but a lot of streams that competitions are held on (for the most part) have either a wild trout population or a stocked trout population with has some holdovers (not the stock n' score you guys are mentioning).

Like I said, this is just my understanding. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[PennKev]

No, the serious events usually don't, such as those involving national or international competition.
However, local competitions such as the one at Harman's was a stockie fest IIRC, and also events on Spruce Creek and other "trout clubs." Pretty much any time it behooves the host to have their competitors catch a large amount of fish.

 

[barrybarry]

I've been competing with myself for 40+ years. Every once and a while I win.

 

[SBecker]

I prefer to stay out of this bashing and really could not care less about what others think. I will chirp in for Gaeron, but will advise him to just let it be, because it is pointless. Other then Harman's all other comps I have been a part of or have seen go on, are on wild trout water. Spring, Lacky, Nine mile are wild trout. Nine mile does get stocked, but the comp was actually used to get data on fish amounts for Catch and Release designation. There might be comps held on public waters that have been recently stocked, but not stocked for the comps. I can not speak for the southern waters, but we in the northeast are lucky to have vast quantities of wild trout waters to compete on. If anybody is actually interested in learning more or have questions, feel free to pm me.

Have fun with the #censor# show.

 

[csoult]

It may be relaxing for you and that's why you do it. It may be competitive for Shane and that why he does it. It may be that competition relaxes me and that's why I do it.

Intollerance of other peoples ways is a sad way to go through life, always worried about what the others are doing. Unless it hurts someone else.... Who cares.

 

[moon1284]

9 Mile Was Not Stocked For The Competition, But It Can Not Be Mistaken For A Wild Trout Stream. It Has Potential To Be A Wild Trout Stream, But It Is One Of The Heaviest Stocked Streams In New York. TheRe Are Quite A Few Wil Trout And Holdovers, But The Vast Majority Of Trout Caught Are Stocked. ThE 7+ Pound Trout That Are Caught There Each Year Are Stocked. Its A Fun Stream, And Has Wild Browns Rainbows AndNative Brook Trout, But These Make Up A Small Fraction Of What Is Caught.

 

[Chaz]

SBecker wrote:
Check out Trout Legend. Guys are really helpful just as here. There will be a list of comps that are scheduled to be taking place. There is one on Spring this weekend. Also, knowing where you live there will be a few coming up in the winter. Yellow Breeches comes to mind. They usually involve stream clean ups as well.

Wow, what restraint!

 

[pcray1231]

I've got no problem with those that are into it.

Personally, I'm not all that interested. Largely because I don't think I'd be very good at it, lol. And I'm not really interested in being good at it either, as it tests different skills than the ones I find most important and interesting.

I am typically more interested in where and when, than how. So, here's the deal. I'm designing a competition I'd actually have some interest in. Anglers will be pitted against other anglers of roughly the same skill level, i.e. if they fished side by side they'd do similarly. All anglers must use the exact same fly, to be provided for you the morning of. Same rod and leader set up. Same amount of weight. We'd prefer if you all used the same techniques too. We're trying to eliminate anything that could be considered "on stream skill" as a variable. This competition is about choosing where and when.

You have 2 days total. You can choose to fish whenever and wherever you want during that time, cept you are not allowed to fish between 10 p.m. and 4 a.m. You start from this spot this morning and have to be back here tomorrow night, where you go in between is your business. Hiking/driving time merely takes away from fishing time, but is allowed. Scoring is similar to other comps, except that stocked fish don't count, and brookies length gets multiplied by 1.3 to put them on an even scale with browns (an average brookie should get as many points as an average brown).

That, I might do.

 

[jkilroy]

I compete. Say what you want,you learn a ton about how to catch fish. All they folks that go to those are very knowledgable and you get better. The comradarie is great also. You learn all the different tactics and how all the little things and great attention to detail makes or breaks the day.

Sorry if it offends but i care about maximizing my time on the water

 

[pcray1231]

not putting it down, jkil. I think I'm a decent fisherman, and yeah, wherever I end up I do my best to catch fish. I just think there's more to be gained by getting good at choosing when to go where.

A typical weekend fishing trip, you wanna maximize the fishing. That's normal. You don't learn to do that better by saying "you have to be on this exact stretch of this exact stream between the hours of 1 and 3 p.m.". It's not about making the best of what you are given. It's about deciding what you want to be given.

Rather, the questions of

"where should we go in the morning, and how early should I be there?" "what stream will fish best at midday?" "Where do I want to be set up this evening for the hatches, and when do I have to get there by?" "What's the best time to stop and eat lunch/dinner or get a beer, without missing the hottest fishing?".

Among better fishermen, answering the above questions better than someone else will net more fish than being marginally better at dragging a nymph through a hole.

 

[PennKev]

pcray1231 wrote:
Among better fishermen, answering the above questions better than someone else will net more fish than being marginally better at dragging a nymph through a hole.

Marginally better, or close competition? Whether it is golf, bowling, archery, etc. competition usually results in close scores. Those who are marginally better on a consistent basis are usually the ones who come out on top. There's often a fine line between winners and losers, particularly in the highest levels of competition.

Winners find ways to be the guy who is marginally better on a regular basis. This extremely difficult to pull off. No one wins anything consistently by accident or luck.

As for picking your fishing destination, yes it takes some knowledge to find the best fishing spot, but I think that if that is part of the competition, then everyone is going to go someplace that they are extremely comfortable fishing. It would be like letting a golfer pick his home course to play then comparing it to scores from other golfers who played different courses. All that it proves is that you are good in a particular set of conditions, not good across ALL conditions and locations. When all participants are restricted to a certain stream, at a certain time, on a certain day, their abilities can be compared much more objectively. No arbitrary handicap scoring system would be needed for brookies for example. If the stream and conditions selected for the competition are well suited to your capabilities, then you got lucky. However, the chances of each stream being well matched to your ability decreases over a series of competitive events, that is unless you are actually very good and none present a challenge beyond your ability.

Kev

 

[jkilroy]

Since I have been competing and practicing that style of fishing I can go to any stream and be successful. Even he hardest streams. I don't plan on competing forever I'm just honing my skills. I was kind of hesitant at first, but after a couple I really enjoy them. And I learn so much when I go to penns, BFC, and spring I usually do well.i did we'll on the Davidson the other year when it was low and clear flowing a curly.

You learn about leaders sighters, tungsten beads, hot spots, dry dropper rigs, short and long line nymphing, all kinds of neat stuff. Which also keeps your mind active.

It's still all about having fun. And I have a lot more fun when I catch fish when I go out. I don't like getting the skunk.

 

[lv2nymph]

Sipe, I don't fish competition but check out Troutlegend forum.
A lot of comp guys there.

 

[pcray1231]

All that it proves is that you are good in a particular set of conditions, not good across ALL conditions and locations.

But choosing your conditions is a skill of successful fly fishing, IMO. It's all fine and good to be able to achieve some success in tough conditions. I appreciate that, I really do.

But it's better to avoid tough conditions in the first place! Because while this stream is tough right now, another nearby stream is PERFECT. Being able to predict and adjust to this is indeed a measure of a good fisherman.

When all participants are restricted to a certain stream, at a certain time, on a certain day, some of their abilities can be compared much more objectively.

Fixed it for ya. The skills of fishermen are all encompassing. They are not limited to who can drag a nymph through a hole marginally better on a consistent basis. They include who can set themselves up in the best situations on a consistent basis as well. What you are doing is eliminating half the skill of fly fishing, so that you can isolate the other half for better comparison.

I have no problem with that. All I am saying is that, personally, I am more interested in the other half of the skill set than the one you are measuring. I will follow comps, and learn a trick or two here and there. I have no issue with you guys who take part. I get it, I really do. But I have little desire to take part in the current comp set ups myself. And I think it's important to note that you are only comparing certain skills of being a good fishermen, while specifically excluding skills which are just as, if not more important to most fishermen.

What I did was describe a comp outline which excludes the skills you are currently measuring, and try to test only the other half. A devil's advocate thing.

If you want to include all skills, then it's just an open comp. Fish however, wherever, and whenever you want. And this would be a true test of overall angler skill, because this is the actual reality we all have on a regular fishing trip. And yes, if you can win consistently in such a setup, that makes you a good fishermen, all encompassing. The current comps only say that you are good in THIS particular situation, they do not measure your ability to chose your situation.

 

[afishinado]

Interesting take (above), Pcray. Agreed. It would be impractical as a competition, but would be very interesting.

 

[PennKev]

pcray1231 wrote:
What I did was describe a comp outline which excludes the skills you are currently measuring, and try to test only the other half. A devil's advocate thing.

What you described is a competition in which avoiding your deficiencies is more important than being well rounded and adaptable to adverse situations.

Where is the ingenuity in overcoming unexpected situations in your competition? How does it reward the one or two guys in the field of competitors who have the patience and finesse to hook a few fish when and where no one else can? What about the guy fishing huge, weighted flies in high water? Your hypothetical competition largely removes adversity from the equation.

Forcing an angler to fish in a particular set of conditions may eliminate a certain aspect of skill, but allowing an angler to taylor the playing field to his own skills or lack of skills removes more skill than it adds to the competition.

I could start a golf league where you only play the holes you want to play when you want to play them, but I don't think it would find much credibility amongst the games best players, or anyone for that matter.

Kev

 

[mcwillja]

Someday i would like to do the 2 fly tournament up at the Ausable or the Trout Power tournament on West Canada. These are not true FIPS Mouche comps, but more friendly fishing comps with less rules and more for fun.

Although not a fan of the FIPS mouche comps I don't mind others competing, however, I have witnessed first hand an angler with poor ettiquete when a comp angler pushed me out of their beat during a comp on ninemile.

 

[IdratherbePhishing]

I say put one comp on the letort then we will see who the better fishermen is. Stocking comps are a joke. IMO compete on the toughest stream there is and you will see who's good and who isn't.