at what point do u trust someone.

  • Thread starter salvelinusfontinalis
  • Start date
I'd keep it simple on answering private messages. I got burned on my old home stream. Wasn't so much the guys ethics, but he told his friends who came and whack a bunch of fish. Known places are ok, but when it comes to wild or migratory fish give 'em enough info to figure it out for themselves. Thats part of the fun, isn't it......

Tight Lines,

Skiltonian
 
good point! i almost always send the class a list and the natural repro list and say have at it!
 
For sale a bucket of worms and a secret spot....lol.... :-D
 
hands off my worms! ;-)
 
Dear sal,

I trust somebody when they offer me their last beer. :-D

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
you dont trust too many people do you? :p
 
Dear sal,

Not many, but the ones I do trust are all aces dude.

Anybody that will offer you their last beer can be trusted with your life. :-D

As far as the rest of this post goes I'm pretty free with information. I figure if I found a place it can't be that much of a secret because I ain't exactly Jeremiah Johnson. :-D

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
Anybody that will offer you their last beer can be trusted with your life.
Click to expand...

well said!
thanks for all your advice tim. you guys are always given me new ideas and places to go and see. i thank you all in advance. this has been my best trout season in along time, all the wild trout fishing and exploring. pa is so beautiful, thank god it has a group of anglers like us who care so much. :-D
 
I'm not generally cynical, but I've got to weigh in on this one, and I guess my take is going to seem EXTREMELY cynical. I've only been on this site for about two months, but I'm incredibly appreciative of the advice the people on this site have shared. But you guys don't know me, and you don't owe me anything.

Those who have researched and found wild trout streams that are off the beaten path are well within their rights not to share that information with ANYONE. You worked to find it, you are a responsible steward of it, and you deserve to enjoy it without someone going in there and spoiling it for you AND for the other people who appreciate it and work to preserve and protect it. I remember as a kid, I regularly fished this out of the way farm pond that was owned by a friend of my family. The thing was teeming with bass and fat bluegills and pumpkin seeds. It's where I learned to fly fish with a yellow cork popper. Even as a ten year old kid, I didn't keep the fish -- primarily out of respect for the farmer who let me fish there whenever I wanted. No one else knew about it...it was my spot. Then one Saturday afternoon, my dad dropped me off there. And there were three guys fishing in my pond with a minnow bucket. As I walked over to talk to them, I noticed a stringer with four huge largemouths on it. They left shortly after I got there, took their fish and left behind a pile of tangled monofilament and some cigarette butts. I NEVER felt the same about that pond again, and over time, I never caught fish with the frequency I did when I was the only person that fished it. While I never ran into those guys again, I began to see telltale signs, usually some empty Eagle Claw wrappers or something like that, that I wasn't the only person who fished there. Now, try to imagine how you would feel, and the other people who love that water would feel if you went to your wild stream and saw litter, or dead fish or saw people fishing there who didn't respect it? I, for one, would be sick about it. You would feel like that Indian in the old anti-pollution commercials from the 70s. :cry:

So if you have a close friend you want to share your stream with who you know won't spill the beans, then take them. But although people on this board are nice, unless you've met them in person, fished with them and observed their ethics, how do you really know what kind of person they are? You're trying to be nice and helpful but seriously, what's to stop someone you've revealed your treasured spot to from telling everyone they know? Really?

If you care about the fish -- and it's obvious that you do -- and sustaining the untouched, virgin beauty of some of these streams, I would not consider you a bad person or a selfish person if you never told a soul.
 
One thing no one has said is that they let the local AFM know when they find a stream that isn't on any of the lists. This is the only way to protect streams from idiots who would otherwise degrade them or pollute them in some way. Permits are issued in watersheds according to the DEP stream designations and if DEP's information is wrong then there is no protection for trout streams.
 
I think people often misunderstand when people, especially beginners, ask about fishing locations. Most of the time they are not asking for your "secret spot". They are just looking for a decent place to fish. I feel obligated to help new fisherman however I can to grow the sport and will not hesistate to refer them to stocked water or any ATW for that mater....regardless of whether they legally creel or not.

I will also point out that by not sharing, when a larger threat (pollution, development, access) affects your secret spot you will have only the allies to defend it that you tell about it.

I think sportfishing is the least of the concerns for a given watershed and that we would gain a lot more in the long run for a given watershed by publicizing it and making it a public treasure than by keeping it secret. Where would we be if Teddy Roosevelt said "Oh, this is a nice place to fish and hunt and enjoy the outdoors, I think I'll keep the spot secret so I can enjoy it in private." instead of creating the national park system. If people know about it and use it they will value it and protect it. The very fact that we are able to have "secret spots" is because of the foresight of the federal, state, and private landowners who are willing to share and encourage sharing our natural heritage.

For good or for bad, the internet is where youth are spending their time these days and I feel the future of the sport will rely on people being willing to share info over the net. Besides, if you aren't willing to share somewhat, whats the point of belonging to a message board?

Are you entitled to keep some spots to yourself? Absolutely. Do you have to spoon feed people who haven't done research on their own with guidebooks and gazeteer? Absolutely not. But are you obligated to help grow the sport and share some of what you know? Very much so, IMHO.

I realize I'm in somewhat of a minority here and really want to report and share more specifics publicly to grow the sport and help the public appreciate the watersheds I fish but realize that this would upset a lot of people and don't do it. I pm a lot though, even to complete "strangers". When I do share, I also share things such as a few links on responsible fishing, i.e. info on C and R, links to brook trout conservation issues, let them know about access and landowner issues (litter, driveways, tresspassing issues, etc) and trust they will take some of this advice along with my "secret spot" advice. I also don't pm people about spots I was pm'd by someone else......I respect their right to a "secret spot".

Now am I disappointed when I get to a stream at daybreak and find someone in my favorite hole? Yes. But I'm happy that someone else is fishing it because I realize that the more people are fishing it the more likely that I and my children will be able to fish it in the future. I have more than enough water to fish, and move on.

But maybe I'm too yound (33), have been fly-fishing for too short a time (4 yrs), or have been fishing rivers too short a time (9yrs), to become cynical....
 
You guys make excellent points. I never considered it from a conservation, fisheries management perspective. At least by telling your AFM, you can do your part to protect your stream.

Everybody who posts on this site is here because they love fly fishing -- they are evangelists of the sport, so to speak. I, for one, take great pride in introducing my friends to the sport. But there is a fine line between talking up your sport, sharing hatch information, etc. and giving up your wild honey spot to someone you're not sure about.
 
"I think people often misunderstand when people, especially beginners, ask about fishing locations. Most of the time they are not asking for your "secret spot". They are just looking for a decent place to fish."

I think you're right about this Ohio. I never get the sense that anyone's asking for directions to an out of the way place, though I did laugh at Tim's Jerimiah Johnson reference since that about sums it up for me as well. Anyway, it's usually more like do I know any decent spots on the Delaware for smallies or a good place on the Saucon, etc.

Of course, I also subscribe to the "last beer" rule about the (very) few places I want to keep to myself.
Coughlin
 
I am pleasantly surprised by the views on this post. When I posted frequently on this board, I often got into trouble with my rants about kiss-and-tell writers selling out fragile, easily exploited waters. There are places I wouldn't tell God about, if He didn't already know about them. There are so few secret spots left, as from the tenor of your posts you already know, where the trout are bright, beautiful, alive (from being released), and unscarred (from not having been hooked day after day). Also, as you know, there are trolls lurking out there who use the Internet to find places to kill trout. I also suspect that the SRC trolls use the board to find places for the Evil Empire to get ahold of. Anyhow, good fishing to all of you in your secret spots.
 
Good to hear from you Rich, you old fart. :-D
 
OHIO and all,

I do alot of my own "soul-searching", has anyone ever used maptech.com as another tool for your stream searching.
It can be pricey 300 bucks however it is a really great alternative to the gazetter and well it is also works incredibly well with any gps. It is just what I use and it is very handy. Food for thought!!
 
skeeter wrote:
OHIO and all,

I do alot of my own "soul-searching", has anyone ever used maptech.com as another tool for your stream searching.
It can be pricey 300 bucks however it is a really great alternative to the gazetter and well it is also works incredibly well with any gps. It is just what I use and it is very handy. Food for thought!!
Click to expand...

I use Delmore and the program that came with my Magellan GPS to figure out the best ways to access new waters. Ill throw in the coordinates and then drive down the road til I get to where Im going. I must say I've found some true jewels in places I would have never thought to have the amount of wild trout that they have by using those map programs and just going with my gut when I get there as to whether it looks fishy or not.
 
Reminds me of the time I told a non-fisihng friend that I'd be in her part of the state doing a little fishing. She told me her boss was a big fishing nut and she'd try to get some info for me. I had already pulled maps of the area and had a plan, but some local knowledge couldn't hurt.

The day before my trip she emailed me with detailed instructions on a hotspot. It went something like this: "He said to pack your waders in a backpack. Hike downstream about a mile from the railroad trestle. Don't even bother fishing until you pass the powerline break, there's a small pool below a long riffle that doesn't look like much. Fish there and you'll have great success".

A few weeks later she asked me if the advice was helpful and I laughed and said no, but I haddn't even bother trying to find this hotspot. I believe the guy was truthful about the location, but because I had already looked over maps of the area, I knew he left out an important detail: Which railroad trestle and power line. Over the course of about 7 miles were 3 different trestle/power line crossings. The only way I would find his spot was to be either lucky or do a lot of hiking. She was horrified that her boss would leave out that important detail, but I actually appreciated it. He was gonna make me work for it. Someday I may go back and look for the spot, but I didn't bother at the time. I've also gotten the same type of info from someone I've met and fished with from this board. He told me a great spot dowstream froma particular landmark on a big stream. Again there were 4 of these landmarks over several miles.... ;-)

I also get a huge chuckle out of reports on Riversmallies. com that will say an "unamed trib." in an attempt to keep a sensitive spot secret. They think its all inside info, when in fact I can usually tell exactly where they are referring to. I fish the same streams and they've unknowingly told me about some spots I hadn't tried previously. I believe that even "vague" stream reports are a bad idea in a public forum. If I meet you onstream or over a beer, I'll gladly share info, but I've gotten a little more secretive as fishing in PA has deteriorated dramatically over the last several years. That's why I have never posted a fishing report in any forum.
 
Misinformation is the worst, most un-sportsman-like thing you can do, especially to a beginner or a tourist. Just don't give any tips at all instead of misinformation. Only friends should treat you that way. :-D

Given that liscence sales have declined dramatically over the past several years and people can't fish two places at once, I have a hard time believeing that the fishing, if it is indeed poorer on average and not just on your pet stream, is do to stream reports on the web or due to a kiss and tell in a magazine.
 
All,

I see this 2 ways I believe that most or all the guys on this site are standup guys a little info on where to go doesnt hurt who wants to travel a long ways to find bad conditions and no trout? But on majorly fished streams such as the Breeches and the section I stock on that stream I do give some disinformation as to where the fish are I have learned the hard way mentioning where there might be some good fish and seeing them tear *** up to that area and hogging it up. It is sad in a way to get to your fav spot that u usually have to yourself at daybreak and see it taken up but thats fishing and after a little dissillusionment see it as hey they pay for the license and the right to fish where they want.

S,
 
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