Nymphing Rigs

[Wmass]

I was watching a guy nymph last weekend and he had a strange setup with two strike indicators seperated by about two feet and then about another 3-4 feet of leader. Any slight movement of the indicator and he would snap it back.



What are people's favorite rigs? Indicator or none? How deep do you go? Do you use slip shot or not?


I ask this because I am a terrible nymph fisherman and I need to increase my success rates.

 

[Sylvaneous]

Don Douple had a rig where he threaded a section of orange fly line onto his leader and glued it there. Then he had another strike indicator higher up. I forget what he used up top. He had remarked that sometimes, he only got to see the little lower strike indicator move on some days when a trout took. I haven't done it, but have frequently considered it. The fly line has it's interior removed and doesn't interfere with anything, just leave it on. I'd put it on almost ALL my leaders, but I don't have access to excess blaze orange fly line to sacrifice.

 

[Red_headed_Stranger]

Wmass,

I like to use two indicators in situations where depth is key and takes are subtle and when I'm using heavy nymphs or multiple rigs with split. This time of the year I use it often when fish are little slower on the take and don't move much to your fly. I like to use a bigger indicator as my top indicator to make sure that I can control my depth, one that tends to float very well. Then as the other indicator lower on the leader, I use as my primary strike indicator. It generally does not sit on top of the water, but will be just a little below the surface. It will indicate strikes much better and sooner than the larger indicator. I also will completely abondon indicators when necessary. Last weekend I fished this setup and could get away with it because the water was up a little moving pretty good. Most times, though, when I fish someplace like Valley I will only use the smallest possible indicator or none when nymph fishing.

 

[tabasco_joe]

Sylvaneous wrote:
Don Douple had a rig where he threaded a section of orange fly line onto his leader and glued it there. Then he had another strike indicator higher up. I forget what he used up top. He had remarked that sometimes, he only got to see the little lower strike indicator move on some days when a trout took. I haven't done it, but have frequently considered it. The fly line has it's interior removed and doesn't interfere with anything, just leave it on. I'd put it on almost ALL my leaders, but I don't have access to excess blaze orange fly line to sacrifice.

I bought the RIO indicator which is a short piece of fly line they sell at a lower cost than a full line. Your supposed to strip away a short amount of the outer sheath and tie on you leader. Then pull it through. Never worked for me. Seemed like the inner mono core wasn't strong enough and it just kept breaking off. Some day I'll pick up a full ine at a clearance sale and give it another try. Anyone else ever try this?

 

[MKern]

If you really want to increase the number of fish you catch by nymphing first off you have to give yourself a decent shot by selecting the right water.
We all know that the fast water hold fish and big fish just as good, and actually the fish use less energy in the fast stuff, as slow deep pools.
Keys to my success are only fishing water that looks like it holds fish.
Only fish about a 5-12' alley infront and upstream of me. After no more than 20 cast in the same alley, step foreward and fish a foot or 18" over.
After you work this area, not spending all day casting to nothing or fish that don't want what you got, move 12' upstream and start over.
I find that I normally catch a fish within 5 cast. Casting to the same fish 100 times and praying that he takes it on the 101st time waste too much time. Especially cause this is time you could have caught hihs buddy 2 feet to his right, and his buddy 2 feet to his right , and 10 other fish during that time.

As far as indicators, they are all pretty much based on the same principles and concepts and do the same thing, so your preference is the best for you.

 

[afishinado]

I became familiar with the FF line indicators mentioned a long time ago at FFP in State College. They use a Fl. orange 12wt floating line with the core removed and slip it over the leader knots.

I do a similar thing with Strike Putty. I pinch some putty on my tippet knot and place a pinch on two or three other knots spaced out up the leader. After the cast I keep my eye on the closest indicator to the fly until it disappears in the water as the fly sinks.

You can add enough putty to float your fly for a bobber effect, or just add a small pinch to the leader knots for better visibility of the leader without impeding the sink rate.

The visible putty makes the line easier to follow and detect strikes, but the beauty of it is you can also detect when your leader is beginning to drag. Drag can be easily detected since multiple points on the leader are highly visible allowing you to see your leader bow in the current. You can then mend to keep the indicators in a straight line to avoid drag and get maximum depth. I’ve also found the multiple indicators are a great way to teach beginning FF about drag and mending. When teaching I tell them to mend to keep all the indicators drifting in a straight line.

The advantage I find with the putty is that it’s easily moved, increased or decreased in size, or removed for dry fly fishing or nymphing without an indicator. The rig is simple, cheap, works well, and I find it very versatile. I find it most useful in thin and clear water where a clunky bobber indicator might spook fish. Good luck.

 

[Maurice]

I agree with the RHS. If you want to improve your nymphing and are not against indicators, I would recommend the sleeve type indicator closer to the fly. Like 2-3 feet depending on the depth. It will be under water nearly all the time and will give you an idea of how/where your fly is drifting. Is it behind, infront, to the side of your suspension indicator? Because it is a few inches long it "points" to the fly giveing you clues about under currents.

I used to use these all the time for steelhead fishing, I got away from it thinking I had a better idea of how my drift was. I think I may go back to them this year for a trial to see if I still agree with them. But from experience, I'd say yes.

You will find that it will sometimes dart away and the suspension indicator doesn't even move.

You may also find that after using it and learning how to control your line that you can fish a nymph without indicators. It can be a real confidence builder, or should I say an educational experience.

And I don't agree that all indicators are the same...far from it.

 

[MKern]

Mo,
How aren't all indicators similar and based on the same principles?

They are all attached or connected to the leader and show variations in line movement.
What's the difference between yarn, foam w/ toothpick, putty, a stimulator (or humpinator if you choose), they all float on the surface and twitch when something comes in contact with the fly. And what's different between czech nymphing rig and sliding on a peice of fly line; and if the fly line floats then I'd say it is pretty much like the first grouping I had. Besides a czech nymphing rig is designed to be held half in the water and half out, therefore being suspended at the surface like the others.

I will say that some are more effective than others, and some are better in different situations. There is always the disagreement in between each respective indicator type as well. for instance, I prefer the small round foam indicators, if I were to use that type, and my friend likes the largest ones they make, same indicator, but difference in oppinion.

My advice still stands --- choose which indicator you like and stick with it, but try a few to start so you have a basis for your choice.

 

[afishinado]

I agree with Mo that the secret to detecting strikes when nymphing is to key on the line as close the fly as possible. After watching many guys nymph, I believe the biggest reason many are unsuccessful, besides dragging the fly on the drift, is that they position their indicators way too far up the leader to detect strikes. Many guys attach an indicator 6 or 8 feet from the fly near the butt of the leader. Between that distance and the amount of heavy stiff leader butt line bowing in the current and causing slack between the indicator and the fly, they have no chance to see the line move an inch or two when the fish takes the fly.

Even when using a bobber indicator, try to fish it as close to the fly as possible with only tippet beneath the indicator. The thinner line below the indicator will sink quicker, cause less drag with less slack and be more sensitive to strikes. One tip is don’t keep increasing the distance of your indicator from you fly to gain depth. Measure your distance 1.5 to 2X the depth and keep that constant until the water depth changes, instead keep adding weight without moving the indicator until you begin to touch the bottom. Again, if you do this, your indicator will stay closer to the fly, and the thinner line will cause less drag and be more sensitive to strikes. The very reason a dry / dropper nymph rig works so well for most is that there is thin tippet material between the flies which adds sensitively to the rig.

In clear water I don’t use an indicator and actually watch the fly or sometimes tie I on a second visible fly behind it and look through the water to detect strikes. In deeper or less clear water I also look through the water to watch the tippet as close to the fly as possible. If I can’t pick up the tippet, as I said in my earlier post, a pinch of strike putty on the tippet knot is a great aid to nymphing by adding some visibility to the line for strike detection and as a drag indicator.

 

[MKern]

Don't forget that your average beginer nymph fisherman misses over 60% of strikes, as in the strike go undetected.

I attribute the numbers of fish I catch to hitting a ton of quick moving water that looks like it hold plenty of fish and not staying i none area very long. Casting the same flies to the same fish for a half an hour is a waste of time. There are plent of fish all around you who will take your fly on t hefirst cast, so why not cast to them instead?

 

[tomgamber]

MKern wrote:
Mo,
How aren't all indicators similar and based on the same principles?

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I take the sleeve indicator to mean that its closer to the fly and doesn't really float but because its "stick-like" (for lack of a better term) points in the direction of your fly so, as Mo put it, tells you where your fly is in relation to the indicator. That would be completely different from anything that would float or be considered "a float". I've never thought of it but it sounds interesting. You could then put a floating indicator higher up that would serve the purpose of detecting the strike...the other is more of a "fly position indicator".

 

[MKern]

Tom, I agree that this version is different, but most indicator are based on the same concept.

I will add that the closer to the fly the indicator is the better the success of at least the indicator. Meaning that if the fly is near the bottom and the indicator is at the surface the number of detected strikes goes up, way up.

 

[troutbert]

Flyfishers Paradise still sells those orange sleeve indicators made from orange fly line. That way you don't have to buy a whole fly line and slice it and dice it.

I like them. I put one in the upper part of the leader and one at about halfway down. And just leave them on their permanently. For dry fly and nymph fishing. You don't have to fool with them.

Understand though that these are not the "bobber" type of indicator. They don't float. So they are very different from the big foam or Corkie type of indicators.

They don't add any flotation at all. It's just a bright spot you can see, to help you detect strikes.

And they aren't big and bulky, so they have little to no effect on your casting.

Plus, no one can accuse you of "bobber fishing." 🙂

 

[flybop]

Another very important aspect to nymphing is getting the weight just right. I seem to very often start with not enough. After a few drifts if you are not getting some hangups or junk on your flies, add a little more weight.

A few years ago I began to use a right angle nymph rig. For shallow to moderate depth I really like this rig. I take a leader and going up from the tippet get somewhere well within the thicker part of the leader mid section. Then cut it and throw a loop in the end. I keep my indicator above the loop. Now all you need to do is guestimate the water depth and run straight tippet off the loop using the old 1 1/2 to 2 times the depth rule.

The first fly I tie on is relatively heavier than the dropper.This can be as little as a small bead head. Then I just tie the dropper off the bend of the point fly's hook. This year I will experiment with the different ways to tie on the second fly.

This nymph rig has worked real well for me and my clients. The theory behind this is that the straight tippet from the loop to your point fly sinks faster than a tappered leader. (A friend actually did tests of this in an aquarium and swears it makes a big difference. This guy has been guiding for 20 years, so I took his word on this.) So, your flies sink faster and you often have a more direct line from your indicator to your flies.

This rig does have a practicle depth limit however. With a nine foot rod I keep the tippet portion less than six feet, usually about four or five. If your stream has a lot of shallow riffles though, this rig really shines in that water type.

For fast, riffled water and heavy flies I really like the new Thingamabobber indicators. They are very bouyant and light.

 

[tabasco_joe]

flybop wrote:
Another very important aspect to nymphing is getting the weight just right. I seem to very often start with not enough. After a few drifts if you are not getting some hangups or junk on your flies, add a little more weight.

A few years ago I began to use a right angle nymph rig. For shallow to moderate depth I really like this rig. I take a leader and going up from the tippet get somewhere well within the thicker part of the leader mid section. Then cut it and throw a loop in the end. I keep my indicator above the loop. Now all you need to do is guestimate the water depth and run straight tippet off the loop using the old 1 1/2 to 2 times the depth rule.

The first fly I tie on is relatively heavier than the dropper.This can be as little as a small bead head. Then I just tie the dropper off the bend of the point fly's hook. This year I will experiment with the different ways to tie on the second fly.

This nymph rig has worked real well for me and my clients. The theory behind this is that the straight tippet from the loop to your point fly sinks faster than a tappered leader. (A friend actually did tests of this in an aquarium and swears it makes a big difference. This guy has been guiding for 20 years, so I took his word on this.) So, your flies sink faster and you often have a more direct line from your indicator to your flies.

This rig does have a practicle depth limit however. With a nine foot rod I keep the tippet portion less than six feet, usually about four or five. If your stream has a lot of shallow riffles though, this rig really shines in that water type.

For fast, riffled water and heavy flies I really like the new Thingamabobber indicators. They are very bouyant and light.

How do you tie on the tippet off the loop? What I've generally seen in articles is using a yarn indicator at the loop and an improved cinch knot on the leader that uses the loop knot as a stop.

I've had some hooking issues with a dropper tied to the hook bend. I'm wondering if that is solved by moving the tie-off to the hook eye?

Anyway I haven't used the right angle much but it's something I'm planning on trying this year on medium depth streams. (To me the value of quickly changing back and forth between drys and nymphs seems to suggest staying with the straight line method on shallow streams. Make sense?)

 

[jerseygeorge]

This nymph rig has worked real well for me and my clients. The theory behind this is that the straight tippet from the loop to your point fly sinks faster than a tappered leader. (A friend actually did tests of this in an aquarium and swears it makes a big difference. This guy has been guiding for 20 years, so I took his word on this.) So, your flies sink faster and you often have a more direct line from your indicator to your flies.

I take a standard leader, cut it about in half, then make a long section of 3x-4x as appropriate. Like you I believe that the longer thinner leader sinks better, and I also believe that it drifts more naturally. Has worked very well for me, and I have no problem sliding the indicator off and casting dries on the same leader.

We all know that as soon as you rig for nymphing four fish in the pool will start rising like crazy.

Also, anyone new to nymphing re-read Kern's posts. I think he has a lot of nymphing nailed there.

JG.

 

[flybop]

Tabasco, I was first shown this rig with the loop at the end of the thick section of leader. The way you described it is also a very good method. I have read the same articles. Yarn indicators are very popular out here but I have never taken to them. They get water logged, and heavy, eventually sink and their wind resisitance makes them a little tricky to cast.

Both methods are doing pretty much the same thing. This is a perfect example of no right or wrong way, just personal preference. One thing about the method I described is that if the loop knot is not small it can get hung up in the rod guides. I just tie my tippet to the loop with an improved clinch knot.

Switching from a nymph rig to a dry rig takes a few minutes though. Personally I like the right angle method enough to take the few extra minutes to switch out leaders.

 

[tabasco_joe]

flybop wrote:
Tabasco, I was first shown this rig with the loop at the end of the thick section of leader. The way you described it is also a very good method. I have read the same articles. Yarn indicators are very popular out here but I have never taken to them. They get water logged, and heavy, eventually sink and their wind resisitance makes them a little tricky to cast.

Both methods are doing pretty much the same thing. This is a perfect example of no right or wrong way, just personal preference. One thing about the method I described is that if the loop knot is not small it can get hung up in the rod guides. I just tie my tippet to the loop with an improved clinch knot.

Switching from a nymph rig to a dry rig takes a few minutes though. Personally I like the right angle method enough to take the few extra minutes to switch out leaders.

I was wondering if anyone considered using a loop to loop connection to add leader and tippet to convert the rig back to dry fly fishing? Don't know how this would turn over but there are some people that are using loops to connect tippets to the leader.
As I enter senior citizenship and my eyesight starts to fade the idea of easier connections and fewer knots is appealing.

 

[shipnfish2006]

I've grown quite fond of using a dropper rig. I normally tie on a #12-#16 thunderhead grease it up then tie on 18+" of the desired tippet (length depending on the depth of the water) then tie on the nymph and add weight as needed about 6-8" from the fly. I find that using the dropper allows me to catch trout on top in situations where I wouldn't even think of using a dry only. Just this past weekend I caught more on the indicator fly than I did the nymph.

 

[MKern]

Just so you know, in a right angle set up, the fly isn't directly under the indicator.

The top of the water moves faster that the lower section, even 3 inches on the surface. Also your fly line and thicker section of the leader are being pulled differently (speed and direction) as your fly. Have you ever seen ribbon sticks?
Even in very slow moving deep pools, the fly is usually behind the indicator. I say usually because it can be anywhere at any angle, even in front of the indicator.

Some times fish sit backwards in the water column, even fast moving water, because a section of the current is actually flowing upstream. Try imitating that with your flies.