Advice Needed: Struggling with Wool Strike Indicators

[IsaacYampolsky]

I'm new to fly fishing and I've been trying to familiarize myself with the different types of flies and indicators. I got started fishing a squirmy worm with a stick-on indicator. It was easy enough to learn with due to the low weight and air resistance of the indicator and the ease of applying the stick-on indicator. However, they do tend to fall off after repeated use and they are not great for the envitonment, so I decided it was about time for me to switch a wool indicator.

I bought a DIY kit from amazon which came with four colors, a tool, and a plastic tube. It was easy enough to use, but when used with the tube, it tended to fall off, so I looked up how to apply the wool directly to your line. It was easy enough to learn, and I've been tying the wool on my line in a way that stays on and is easy to adjust, but it keeps getting tangled up in my line and causing insane knots. These knots and tangles take forever to fix and are usually so bad that I have to break off my tippet entirely and tie on a whole new rig.

Other than that, I really love fishing with these indicators because they detect subtle strikes which is good for me because I've been primarily fishing for panfish since that's the majority of what I have around me in this season especially at my local shallow creek. They look natural, their depth can be adjusted easily, and they're biodegradable, which is awesome.

If anyone is familiar with this problem or knows the optimal way to attach wool indicators, please let me know, because other than this issue, I love these indicators, and would love to continue using them. However, as it stands, they are routinely ruining my trips and causing me a lot frustration.

Any advice is welcome.

 

[McSneek]

Hi Isaac. You say you are tying the indicator to your leader. Not sure about that. My wool indicators are attached to a very small O ring. Pass your leader through the O ring with a loop and then you can slide the indicator up and down your leader to adjust for depth.

 

[poopdeck]

It’s your casting. it’s not how you tie on the yarn.

 

[dudemanspecial]

I use 5/16 (i think) orthodontic rubber bands, this is refered to the "Dorsey Style". Google that and you will get a ton of hits.

I have used the "New Zealand Strike Indicator" brand tool in the past. Im curious if that was thr tool you had, or was it a cheap knockoff.

Where on your leader was the tube located when you couldn't get it to hold? If you had it down towards the tippet end I could see that being an issue. I usually keep mine within the top 2 feet of my leader butt end.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Use the tubing and just pull your leader really snug onto the wool. I never have problems losing the wool.

 

[hooker-of-men]

It’s your casting. it’s not how you tie on the yarn.

This was my first thought.

Is the terminal end of the tippet getting tangled / wrapped around the indicator (as if the line has crossed itself and caught the indicator from above)? If so, research tailing loops. Slow down your casting and wait longer to feel the rod load on the back cast before coming forward.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

As others have said, change your casting stroke any time you have more than one "thing" terminating your leader. You probably learned that casting tight loops is always the best, but you need to open that loop a little bit when casting indicators or dropper rigs (and probably big and fluffy streamers).

 

[JeffK]

I would say casting too. Wait for line to straighten out in the back as mentioned before. Maybe even look back if you don't feel the pull. If you snap the loop around at the end it will tangle. Timing if everything - don't need to throw hard. The fly can also tangle if the fly and the fly line are both taking the same path (a tight loop) on the forward cast. One way to get an open loop is to move your elbow down slightly on the forward cast. For a tight loop you want the rod tip to follow a straight line (old timers used to say like painting a ceiling). To get an open loop your rod tip has to drop slightly in your forward cast so that line following the fly goes under it and doesn't tangle. Lowering your elbow drops the rod tip without rotating the rod too much.

 

[joebamboo]

Use Oros indicators instead!

 

[tjsingle]

I've never been a fan of wool indicators. Always have used football indicators and recently have switched exclusively to Oros. The XS and small size do not spook fish in my experience.

Sounds like a casting issue, like others mentioned.

 

[Broodstock]

Hey, welcome to fly fishing. This is a great place to get some advice and learn.

It seems like you are learning the cardinal rule quickly - which is to: try something out, look for the feedback, learn something, and then adjust. Rinse and repeat and you will be well on your way. This applies to most things in fly fishing (and life) and not just yarn indicators.

I agree with the casting advice - all the tips others have mentioned are good. Let that loop open up, let the line straighten out, false cast less. Make sure you have a heavy enough line and rod to throw the wind resistant indicators.

I like the NZ wool system and the little tube and applicator. I would also think that dropping whatever nymphs or wormy flies you have off of a small popper or hopper would be a good thing to try out. If you are fishing warm water systems, this time of year topwater eats are in play.

 

[IsaacYampolsky]

I use 5/16 (i think) orthodontic rubber bands, this is refered to the "Dorsey Style". Google that and you will get a ton of hits.

I have used the "New Zealand Strike Indicator" brand tool in the past. Im curious if that was thr tool you had, or was it a cheap knockoff.

Where on your leader was the tube located when you couldn't get it to hold? If you had it down towards the tippet end I could see that being an issue. I usually keep mine within the top 2 feet of my leader butt end.

Yeah, I put it on the tippet. And I've been fishing with really thin 7x tippet, so maybe it's just too thin to hold it on. The I fish in Pennypack creek primarily and it can be really shallow in some sections, so if I put it up only like 1.5 feet. I try with the tube up on the thicker part of the leader.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Yeah, I put it on the tippet. And I've been fishing with really thin 7x tippet, so maybe it's just too thin to hold it on. The I fish in Pennypack creek primarily and it can be really shallow in some sections, so if I put it up only like 1.5 feet. I try with the tube up on the thicker part of the leader.

Conventional wisdom dictates that the distance between the flies and indicator should be 1.5- 2x the water depth, although sometimes you do want to suspend it off the bottom so you can shorten it up some. I really can't think of a scenario where I would want an indicator on 7x tippet though. That is just too thin to carry and turn over any kind of indicator at all. That shallow of water I would probably ditch the indicator and just watch the leader or end of flyline to stop. Honestly fish rarely feed in water that shallow so I probably wouldn't even bother fishing it unless I saw one feeding there.

 

[IsaacYampolsky]

Hey, welcome to fly fishing. This is a great place to get some advice and learn.

It seems like you are learning the cardinal rule quickly - which is to: try something out, look for the feedback, learn something, and then adjust. Rinse and repeat and you will be well on your way. This applies to most things in fly fishing (and life) and not just yarn indicators.

I agree with the casting advice - all the tips others have mentioned are good. Let that loop open up, let the line straighten out, false cast less. Make sure you have a heavy enough line and rod to throw the wind resistant indicators.

I like the NZ wool system and the little tube and applicator. I would also think that dropping whatever nymphs or wormy flies you have off of a small popper or hopper would be a good thing to try out. If you are fishing warm water systems, this time of year topwater eats are in play.

Thanks for your advice. I'll definitely try keeping my loops more open and let the line straighten out. I'm using 7x tippet which is very light as far as I know, but I didn't know that wool indicators were air resistant. Good to know. I do tend to false cast a lot. I have gotten a small taste of topwater with small dry flies used on sunnies. I'll try a popper. Any suggestions as to brands or sizes?

 

[IsaacYampolsky]

This was my first thought.

Is the terminal end of the tippet getting tangled / wrapped around the indicator (as if the line has crossed itself and caught the indicator from above)? If so, research tailing loops. Slow down your casting and wait longer to feel the rod load on the back cast before coming forward.

Yes, that's exactly it.

 

[IsaacYampolsky]

Conventional wisdom dictates that the distance between the flies and indicator should be 1.5- 2x the water depth, although sometimes you do want to suspend it off the bottom so you can shorten it up some. I really can't think of a scenario where I would want an indicator on 7x tippet though. That is just too thin to carry and turn over any kind of indicator at all. That shallow of water I would probably ditch the indicator and just watch the leader or end of flyline to stop. Honestly fish rarely feed in water that shallow so I probably wouldn't even bother fishing it unless I saw one feeding there.

I tried fishing without the indicator due to all the tangles and it did work, but I was more watching the fly itself, luckily I was fishing in clear, shallow water for sunnies so I could see, but that is good to know about 7x line being too thin for indicators. I think next time I will try 6x with wider loops, less false casts, and I'll put the indicator on the thicker part of the leader, not the tippet.

 

[poopdeck]

What weight rod are you using and what size flies are you using? I can think of no reason to fish 7X and 6X tippet with a squirmy wormy. 6 and 7X tippet are for small, like 18 to 26 size flies, I see no reason to go below 5X on the Pennypack. I use the Dorsey yarn system and love it. As others have said, forget tight loops with a yarn indicator or a hopper dropper set up, and use a 5 or even a 4X or 3X tippet. Use the rule of three for tippet size in relation to the size of fly. Divide your fly size by 3 to get tippet size. So if your fishing a size 12 fly divide 12 by 3 = 4X tippet. If your using a two fly or an indicator you can divide the hook size by four so using the same size 12 fly you would divide 12 by 4 = 3X tippet.

 

[IsaacYampolsky]

What weight rod are you using and what size flies are you using? I can think of no reason to fish 7X and 6X tippet with a squirmy wormy. 6 and 7X tippet are for small, like 18 to 26 size flies, I see no reason to go below 5X on the Pennypack. I use the Dorsey yarn system and love it. As others have said, forget tight loops with a yarn indicator or a hopper dropper set up, and use a 5 or even a 4X or 3X tippet. Use the rule of three for tippet size in relation to the size of fly. Divide your fly size by 3 to get tippet size. So if your fishing a size 12 fly divide 12 by 3 = 4X tippet. If your using a two fly or an indicator you can divide the hook size by four so using the same size 12 fly you would divide 12 by 4 = 3X tippet.

I use mostly size 12 or below flies. The squirmy worm was size 14, so I guess I should size up my tippet? I like fishing smaller midges too, but I ran out of them.

 

[LLR]

Some very great advice you have received

Just slowing down your casting stroke in this situation will help tremendously

 

[Bamboozle]

When I use yarn, I use my own method of attachment which doesn't involve O-rings or plastic tubing and I use a small piece, never much longer than 1/2" or less.

Tangles usually never happen.

When fishing midge pupa if I want an indicator on super light tippets, I use a tiny blob of strike putty.