Tying for grannoms

depends on what flys they are , quill gordons , hendricksons , stones , grey fox , caddis , brown drakes , light cahills are ok in those sizes but i wouldn't want to throw a 12 BWO dry during an olive hatch especially late in the year well anytime of year for that matter , size does matter and so does color , switching to smaller flys or only using smaller flys than the natural does not necessarily mean u catch more fish either
 
I tend to be a small fly guy. My go to size for generic attractors is around 16. I almost never go any bigger than 14.

For hatch matching, I tie imitations of the bugs, and attempt to get the size as close as possible. If they are 22s, I tie 22s. If they are 10s, I tie 10s. I just enjoy closely imitating insects.

In looking at blueheron's fly box, it was clear that he's got a style unto himself, and I dug it. He had a lot of larger flies and most all of them had lots of natural colors and fibers, and looked to me like they come alive in the water. I think there's a place for both styles in my box, and I will be duplicating the stuff blueheron showed me. The flies just look like fish food.
 
I caught some fish on #12 grannoms last year at the little j. The hatch was so heavy, that I think the larger fly stood out a little more
But a #14 fly matches them there - and on penns - very well.
When I fished the grannoms on oil and sugar creeks however, they were smaller. And a #16 fly was required
 
i think the trend towards small flies helps us old fashioned guys.everybody and their brother throws a size 16 fly out there,and we come along with a size eight and clean up,haha
 
I'm getting ready to tie some grannom patterns as well. For the flies tied with the green egg sack, what materials/shades of green are you using? Caddis Green Or Olive dubbing? Green Weenie (Chartruse) chenille? All of the above?


afishinado wrote:
DGC wrote:
I am no expert on this hatch but I would carry #16s as well. You know how that goes when a drop in size for whatever reason seems to do the trick.

As to the ESPs there is the usual controversy about what to use for the veil. Sparkle yarn is what is typically called for, but how important that really is, no idea.


Good advice on tying some 16's.

As far as the ESP & DSP patterns, IMO no other fly has more controversy than this pattern. It's a classic battle of the "haves" and "have-nots", or in this case the "catch" or "catch-nots".

The only thing I can say is I swear by these patterns on a caddis hatch. The common thread I see with guys that get blanked or catch little on it is that it's not tied properly and/or the right material is not used. Very few shops offer these flies both tied properly and with the recommended material. Draw you own conclusions.

I have been using the Antron sold on the cards at fly shops to tie mine. Is this the correct material, or should I be using something else?
 
As I posted, this is the best stuff to use for LaFountaine Caddis. Use it for the overbody, and chop it up into fine pieces and touch dub it rough for the body.

http://www.thebookmailer.com/Supplies/SparkleYarn.html

The long article I posted stated that there are several types of caddis called grannoms, but the long and short of it is that there are light (bright green) and dark (dark green, almost black) species. The wild card is that the bright green ones are that color when freshly hatched and turn darker later on. I would tie both and check the naturals.

It wouldn't hurt (like Jay did) to tie up some peacock herled body soft hackles both with and without a bright green egg sack. A turn of chartreuse chenille should work fine.

If you can't catch 'em with all those flies in your box....just tie on a wooly bugger and have fun. ;-) HTH

For those that fish the grannoms, it would be great if we continue this thread during and after the hatch and compare notes.
 
GF,

I use a chartreuse green dubbing.

At the bottom of this page, there is a picture of an egg layer.
http://www.flyguysoutfitting.com/grannomxcaddis.html
 
Grannoms are darker. Several guys on here swear by a Lead wing coachman for grannoms.

If you are talking subsurface, any peeking caddis with a green collar (the color you described as "green weenie") should work. Sandfly has a nice one on his site.

www.bigmeadowsflyshop.com/images/DSCN6140.JPG
 

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There sure seems to be a lot of interest in grannoms this year.

Goodfortune, Afishinado mentioned the Bookmailer (and provided a link, see above) as having the material (sparkle yarn) for the veil of the deep sparkle pupa (DSP) and Emergent Sparkle Pupa (ESP). As far as I know, the sparkle yarn sold at FFP is also apropriate. Call and ask. It is very cheap, and FFP will likley get your order to you very fast--they have that reputation for a reason.

Afishinado, I somehow didn't notice your discussion regarding sparkle yarn before I posted about the veil material controversy. That was not intended as a shot across the bow but after looking at it in sequence it seemed that way. Given how cheap and easily available sparkle yarn is, I see no reason not to use it and plenty of reasons based on testimony on its effectiveness to do so.

As mentioned, there are dark grannoms and light grannoms. In the north central and ne, the light, apple green grannom seems to be what produces the action. The dark grannom is heavy in the central PA limestoners except Spring Creek (that could change). They are also present in many other streams, just not in the same quantity in most cases. Also, just because a stream has not had a fishable hatch in the past, doesn't mean it can't show up this year in a big way. If stream quality is improving accross the state, and I think it is for the most part, then "new" bugs are always possible. If you look at the various historical reports, you notice that April 8 or 9 is about as early as the big central PA limestoners see the emergence. Further south the emergence can already be happening, but since much of the freestone water is closed, little notice is taken. I have a hunch there is some decent grannom activity right now on these southerly and less noticed freestones.

It would be logical to expect other bugs to be present during the grannom and maybe even mask it. There could still be BWOs around, and just as likely if not more so, Paraleps (Blue Quills).

If I fish this grannom hatch, I will be hoping for conditions allowing for a dry/dropper setup. You often hear reports that the emergence is one of many bugs but no risers, implying staying with subsurface or damp patterns. But you never know, and with the tandem you have it covered anyway.

Dry fly action is often considered an evening affair, which makes sense since these are typically wild brown trout waters (for the dark grannom) and the egg laying bugs on the one hand and low light levels on the other should be your optimal chance for finding risers. Getting them to pick your fly out if there is a multitude is another issue.
 
When you do this long enough, you try to catch 'em like You want to catch 'em. As far as Grannoms or any other caddis, I'll fish a rising nymph on a 12 1xL unless they're jumping out of the water for the egg layers, at which point I'll switch to the appropriate light or dark hairwing pattern. Phew that was a long post for me.
I'm more long winded in person. And not so dry.
 
Jay, great link to Loren William's page. I think his tying instructions on his website to be the best. He shows every little step, including tips that I sometimes never heard of before.
 
What are you gettin em on?

I got all grannom-caught fish on these guys.
 

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I did well on a Soft Hackle with a Peacock body with and without the eggs.
 
i never caught fish on grannom immitations before but do you guys think if i took a size 14 hook and dubbed it with black dubbing (dry ) and tied in a small pinch of moose mane behind the hook eye with the butts pointing out over the hook bend and fold the moose mane like a loop wing emerger so it sticks out past the hook bend and then tie it off where you tied in the first tip ends of moose mane , let me know if this works ? seems like it would float like a cork and really give a good body sillouhette and also might represent a down wing real well too , whats you guys thoughts on this ?
 
Jayl

try tying a few of these too

Grannom X- Caddis

Materials

Hook: Partridge SLD #12-#14

Thread: Black

Tail: Sparse Copper Antron

Body: Very dark chocolate dubbing

Wing: Dark mottled deer hair

Head: Trimmed hair butts
 
also if you need sparkle yarn try these guys

http://www.jsflyfishing.com/cgi-bin/item/SM-700450-0000/search/Hareline-3-Ply-Sparkle-Yarn.html

Or pop round I have quite a few color options....
 
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