Tightline to Indicator - Rig Discussion

there is a section of BFC in the narrows ... right before it flows into the deep channel. heading upstream - it starts with deep-ish rocky pocket water. lots of deep/shallow seams, fast water ( tricky wading ) ... then up from that ... it flows down through beautiful winding channels. deep ledges, lots of seams. over the years ive done ok/well through there with dries .... but this Mono Rig game would have to be perfect through there. with a couple of those tungsten perdigons you guys use ... i need to try that game.

i'll bet Jonas will have EVERYTHING i need ... what do you think?!

( btw -- one early April -- i went for a "swim" there in that exact spot. went in above that pocket water and rode her down to right before the drop into the pocket. only head and rod above water as i went along FAST... spinning. it all happened so fast. water was COLD. and i had a staff and chains on. BFC is a tricky place to wade )
I know the section, I think. Good example of water that tightline to an indicator works well with. However, as with everything, it is not always the best answer to the water you are fishing depending on flow, time of year, etc. For shallow water or slow and shallow riffles, I would much prefer fly line with a long/light leader, and a dry dropper setup. The only reason that I primarily fish mono is due to its well-known versatility.

Do not discount un-weighted flies either, and do not be afraid of split shot. Beads are great, but sometimes they are not the ticket. Fishing a single unweighted PT or Walts with split shot 6-8" above it in pocket water is a great tactic!
 
I've been messing with the Oros indicators in the extra small size (something new) for tightlining with an indicator to add distance in bigger streams. They are about the size of your thumbnail and are easy to add or take off. They make casting easy and worked well so far.

I also just switched from maxima to adams mono, mostly for visibility of the line in the air when casting. I like the way it handles so far.

View attachment 1641235829

I used the Adams as a microleader, but it was kind of a PITA, too small, ended up going to 8# amnesia, and also bypassed using a slighter, Amnesia to tippet ring to tippet. Seems to work well.
 
Being new to all of this "mono-rig" stuff, I have tried three separate rigs.

Rig #1: 20 lb Maxima Chameleon tapered to a short section of 15 lb chameleon tapered to a short section of 10 lb Gold Stren. From there, 4x sighter material to my tippet. It worked, and I liked handling the 20 lb Maxima. It felt good in the hand, but there was some pulling back of the flies and minor sag.

Rig #2: 15 lb Maxima chameleon as the mainline with a short piece of 10 lb Gold Stren connecting to the 4x tippet and then tippet. I liked that better. The 15 lb Chameleon was still noticeable in my hand, but pulled the flies back towards me slightly less.

Rig#3: 10 lb Gold Stren all the way to my 4x sighter material. I caught a lot of fish using this, but handling the thinner material was harder and less manageable. I also found it much harder to propel a cast/lob with this stuff. It worked, however, but it just wasn't the best.

So far, I would say that I like the 15 lb maxima as the running line the best. I am willing to hear other rig options and try other stuff out, however.

Those rigs were fished without indies....just a note.
 
Being new to all of this "mono-rig" stuff, I have tried three separate rigs.

Rig #1: 20 lb Maxima Chameleon tapered to a short section of 15 lb chameleon tapered to a short section of 10 lb Gold Stren. From there, 4x sighter material to my tippet. It worked, and I liked handling the 20 lb Maxima. It felt good in the hand, but there was some pulling back of the flies and minor sag.

Rig #2: 15 lb Maxima chameleon as the mainline with a short piece of 10 lb Gold Stren connecting to the 4x tippet and then tippet. I liked that better. The 15 lb Chameleon was still noticeable in my hand, but pulled the flies back towards me slightly less.

Rig#3: 10 lb Gold Stren all the way to my 4x sighter material. I caught a lot of fish using this, but handling the thinner material was harder and less manageable. I also found it much harder to propel a cast/lob with this stuff. It worked, however, but it just wasn't the best.

So far, I would say that I like the 15 lb maxima as the running line the best. I am willing to hear other rig options and try other stuff out, however.

Those rigs were fished without indies....just a note.
The mono rig you use should be determined by the weight of the flies you plan to fish. Those in turn are determined by the speed, depth and clarity of the water you are targeting. I’ve read like 3 different books on euro nymphing and none of them have explained this particularly well. It’s a balancing act between the flies and mono sag playing tug of war, speed of water and your ability to cast the thing (lighter rods like 2 wts really shine with micro rigs)

Your first rig will work well on big heavy water or deep tailouts. You’ll probably want at least 3.3/3.8 on point to really make it work (frequently I’m running a 4.6 in winter). I use that rig probably more than any other because once hatches start I usually switch to more traditional fly fishing deliveries and I usually stick to the faster water when I’m euronymphing regardless.

Once hatch season starts the fish move to the riffles and runs it might be time to size down the flies and the mono (I’ll usually head to something like 12lb and scale the sighter materials accordingly). By summer, some guys are running 5x mono only and very light nymphs (like a single or tandem 1.5, 2.0, 2.4 etc). It can get very complicated but thankfully the leader making materials are cheap, and it’s easy to swap things out fairly quickly. By the time people are futzing with 5x micro rigs I’m throwing dries
 
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I’ve been fly fishing for 50 years (a true dinosaur). I know next to nothing about Euro Nymphing and I have not tried to learn at all. However, this post inspired me enough to ask some questions. So thanks for that.

1). I realize the rod itself is a key component to the rig. How close could I get to euro nymphing (or tightlining whatever the proper term is) if I just get an unused reel and put the mono on it in the right configuration. Then if I wanted to Euro Nymph I could I swap my current reel for the Euro rigged reel (that I would carry in my vest) when I wanted to nymph. Nymphing is my least favorite method.

2). What advantage does Euro Nymphing provide you over typical fly line? Just sink time being much faster?

3) I feel like when I fish for steelhead (or any lake run fish) I believe that is the closest I get to Euro Nymphing. I get a ton of snags fishing that way. How many snags do you average per day? When I fish for lake runs it is not uncommon for me to “re rig” the weight and hooks 10-15 times per day. The sinkers get snagged often.
 
An experience with the euro thingy had 2 weeks ago where i needed to get deep enough quickly and it worked well, 30 ft of maxima 8 on a glass rod with a streamer. Casting it was odd, but it was very effective. The bass kids fish this hole with heavy jigs
 
I’ve been fly fishing for 50 years (a true dinosaur). I know next to nothing about Euro Nymphing and I have not tried to learn at all. However, this post inspired me enough to ask some questions. So thanks for that.

1). I realize the rod itself is a key component to the rig. How close could I get to euro nymphing (or tightlining whatever the proper term is) if I just get an unused reel and put the mono on it in the right configuration. Then if I wanted to Euro Nymph I could I swap my current reel for the Euro rigged reel (that I would carry in my vest) when I wanted to nymph. Nymphing is my least favorite method.

2). What advantage does Euro Nymphing provide you over typical fly line? Just sink time being much faster?

3) I feel like when I fish for steelhead (or any lake run fish) I believe that is the closest I get to Euro Nymphing. I get a ton of snags fishing that way. How many snags do you average per day? When I fish for lake runs it is not uncommon for me to “re rig” the weight and hooks 10-15 times per day. The sinkers get snagged often.
Remember, I am no expert at mono-rigging. I am a novice. I have been reading about it for quite a while, however.

1. The rod itself is important, but not necessarily the key component. Typically, long rods in lower weights are utilized, with a 3 weight being the most common. I am using my 10' 4 weight that is not a euro specific rod for the tactic. On smaller waters, a traditional 9 weight would also work fine. Different rods would work for different scenarios, but a euro specific rod will be better suited to the task than the others. The key component to the whole system is the......mono rig.

I just carry a roughly 30 foot mono rig and swap and put that leader on when I want to euro nymph, and then take that leader off and put on a different leader if I want to do a more traditional style of fly fishing. A separate reel is not necessary, but I do carry a plastic card to wind the long euro rig on. Swapping em out only takes a couple of minutes.

2. The sole advantage is how much better you are able to control your drift, prevent drag, prevent sag, etc. Even the other day when I was targeting a riser near the bank and I had swift water between me and the fish, my line would catch and quickly pull my fly out of the zone. I caught the fish eventually, but with a mono rig if i could have gotten the dry over there, I could have held the line off the water and totally avoided the line being pulled by the swift current. This means that catching that fish would have been much easier.

3. Getting snagged happens, but it wasn't overly terrible. Maybe that means I needed to get deeper because I wasn't getting snagged enough. I dunno. But that day I forced myself to do it for a couple of hours I cleaned up pretty good. I have cleaned up just as good using traditional tactics, however.

I'm just a novice at the tactic, but there are situations where it is no doubt the best tactic for the water.
 
I’ve been fly fishing for 50 years (a true dinosaur). I know next to nothing about Euro Nymphing and I have not tried to learn at all. However, this post inspired me enough to ask some questions. So thanks for that.

1). I realize the rod itself is a key component to the rig. How close could I get to euro nymphing (or tightlining whatever the proper term is) if I just get an unused reel and put the mono on it in the right configuration. Then if I wanted to Euro Nymph I could I swap my current reel for the Euro rigged reel (that I would carry in my vest) when I wanted to nymph. Nymphing is my least favorite method.

2). What advantage does Euro Nymphing provide you over typical fly line? Just sink time being much faster?

3) I feel like when I fish for steelhead (or any lake run fish) I believe that is the closest I get to Euro Nymphing. I get a ton of snags fishing that way. How many snags do you average per day? When I fish for lake runs it is not uncommon for me to “re rig” the weight and hooks 10-15 times per day. The sinkers get snagged often.
prospector -- this is exactly where i am on this. when i read the initial post by our board friend -- i thought " what in the world is he talking about??". then i thought about it, read some more from the other folks posting ... and said " ive got the materials and i tie my own leaders ... why not give it a try?!" i like trying new things and new ideas, so im going to give it a try.

the amount of excellent information shared on this Board ... freely shared ... is incredible. i look forward to coming here to read ... every day. i only hope that i add my fair share of this good useful information - as a positive contributor. thanks again to all!

jerry
 
What is meant by "sighter".
A section of bright colored mono?
 
I’ve been fly fishing for 50 years (a true dinosaur). I know next to nothing about Euro Nymphing and I have not tried to learn at all. However, this post inspired me enough to ask some questions. So thanks for that.

1). I realize the rod itself is a key component to the rig. How close could I get to euro nymphing (or tightlining whatever the proper term is) if I just get an unused reel and put the mono on it in the right configuration. Then if I wanted to Euro Nymph I could I swap my current reel for the Euro rigged reel (that I would carry in my vest) when I wanted to nymph. Nymphing is my least favorite method.

2). What advantage does Euro Nymphing provide you over typical fly line? Just sink time being much faster?

3) I feel like when I fish for steelhead (or any lake run fish) I believe that is the closest I get to Euro Nymphing. I get a ton of snags fishing that way. How many snags do you average per day? When I fish for lake runs it is not uncommon for me to “re rig” the weight and hooks 10-15 times per day. The sinkers get snagged often.
Nocktavius made a great note about matching your leader thickness up with the weight of the flies (general rule of thumb when fishing tightline rigs). So Prospector, to tie this in with your questions:

1) You can easily use a reel with as little as just the backing on it, then add a lengthy amount of mono that is the preferred diameter/weight for your butt section (let's say for this example, you would attach 50-60 ft. of mono directly to the backing). From this butt section of the leader, you can then taper using mono for whatever rig you desire. So, if you are using a 20 lb butt section, you could taper it by attaching 15 lb maxima, then to 12 lb sighter or something similar. If you wanted to instead use this reel for a lighter tightline rig, you would make your butt section maybe start with 8 or 10 lb and taper down to 6 lb for example.
--> The 20 lb. butt section leader will cast more like a fly line due to the taper and thickness
--> The 10 lb. butt section leader will not cast as similar to a fly line if using heavier nymphs, but it will cast somewhat similar to a fly line if using nymphs that align with the lighter rig (such as nymphs with 2 mm beads for example). Using heavier nymphs on this lighter rig will essentially be similar to spin fishing where the weight of the flies is pulling the line out as you cast rather than the line pulling the nymphs.

2) The advantages, as have been discussed a decent amount on here and in other resources like Troutbitten, are the accuracy you can get when targeting specific drifts you want, sensitivity, and most importantly the versatility. You can easily switch from a tandem nymph rig, then to a dry dropper, then to a streamer at any time (again, with flies that are appropriately weighted for the leader setup being used).

3) Snags depend on what level of the water you want to fish. The commonly referred to "strike zone" down towards the bottom requires you to get deeper, whether by using heavier flies, unweighted flies with split shot, etc. For me, I find that most of my snags do not come from the bottom, rather, they come from an aggressive approach to fishing lies that most fishermen will not attack or be able to get as close to using non-tightline methods. Example: One fisherman is using a conventional fly line and indicator setup, and I am using a tightline rig without an indicator. We are both attempting to fish a seam that passes right by overhanding brush with submerged rocks below. I am able to adjust my depth and angle of approach with the tightline rig to somewhat "guide" my flies through the area to avoid snagging hazards, and I can get much closer due to the thin profile of the rig. The fisherman with the conventional setup and indicator may have trouble as they will likely need to adjust depth by moving the indicator up or down the leader, and they must control the slack of their fly line on the water at the same time. Not the best example to use, but hopefully gets the point across.

You will get similarly snagged as other tactics with the tightline system if you need to get deep to where the fish are, such as winter lies, but that is just the name of the game.
 
What is meant by "sighter".
A section of bright colored mono?
https://farbank.com/products/rio-two-tone-indicator-tippet

A sighter is the last piece of your tightline rig prior to the tippet itself, which is generally meant to be kept above the water for a visual cue for strike detection, nymph location, and more. Sighter sections are commonly two-toned to aid in seeing it, but some anglers prefer a single-color sighter.
 
I feel like @mute needs to report back on his many purchases in his quest for the perfect micro leader material!

You raised another bonus in some instances with using a bobber, a little extra weight.

I've been doing some testing. Need some more time on the water, but I'n time will definitely be sharing my opinion on some differences in the different setups.
 

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I've been doing some testing. Need some more time on the water, but I'n time will definitely be sharing my opinion on some differences in the different setups.
Thanks, Matt (y)
 
It has been a bit since I have posted on here!

I have been getting out when I can, and have recently started to almost strictly use tightline to an indicator. I am currently using a mono rig with a 15 lb butt section --> 12 lb --> 10 lb sighter. For my current system, I have mostly been using a foam indicator right above my bottom tippet ring (smaller size - think Oros), or will use a Dorsey on lower and clearer waters. I have found this to be my go to rig due to being able to reach over currents, better drifts, longer drifts, and easier depth control. Being able to cast upstream further has been highly beneficial, similar to "floating the sighter" except you are getting much better control as you recover line. I also will use a lighter mono rig with this tactic for more sensitivity, strike detection, and easier "lift" when the indy is across current seams.

So - My question for those who fish a similar rig, what are your favorite alterations/additions to a tightline rig that you have found beneficial in controlling your drifts, getting better drifts, or for reaching over current? This can be anything ranging from additions to the leader build (backing barrel, applying wax to leader, etc.) or tactics you like to use when fishing mono.

I think a lot of people largely overestimate how spooky fish are when it comes to indicators. I also think a lot of people are way too confident that they are getting a dead drift when they really aren't, and are sacrificing catching fish at the cost of "using the popular rig" aka pure tightlining.

Recent fish pictures attached for your viewing pleasure.
I was under the impression that some streams prohibit the use of leaders over X feet? Like fly fishing only? Like Spring Creek in Centre County? Or am I having another senior moment?
 
I've been doing some testing. Need some more time on the water, but I'n time will definitely be sharing my opinion on some differences in the different setups.
nice!! Hope you enjoy them 👍
 
I was under the impression that some streams prohibit the use of leaders over X feet? Like fly fishing only? Like Spring Creek in Centre County? Or am I having another senior moment?
There is no specific leader length that must be used on FFO waters to my knowledge! Please someone chime in if I am wrong (if so, I may have been unknowingly breaking rules…). I did check the summary book however and have not seen mention of leader length
 
Pretty sure that has been a deprecated regulation. This was from 2018.

Summary of Change

In an ongoing attempt to simplify regulations, the Commission is continually looking at ways to improve upon current regulations. One area that has come into question recently is the 18-foot maximum length of leader material or monofilament line allowed in catch and release fly-fishing only areas.

In examining this question, it was brought to the Commission's attention that this limitation also excludes several acceptable fly-fishing practices such as European Nymphing. Law enforcement staff indicate that rarely is the length of leader material measured as it does not create significant problems streamside.

Based on these findings, the Commission amends § 65.14 to read as set forth in the proposed rulemaking published at 47 Pa.B. 5786 (September 16, 2017).


Looking at the 2024 summary book, all i see for even the word leader is the following..

CATCH AND RELEASEFLY-FISHING ONLY
• Open to fishing year-round.• Fishing is permitted on a 24-hour basis.• No trout may be killed or had in possession.• Fishing may be done with artificial flies and streamersconstructed of natural or synthetic materials, so long as allflies are constructed in a normal fashion with componentswound on or about the hook. Fishing must be done withtackle limited to fly rods, fly reels and fly line with leadermaterial of monofilament line attached. Anything otherthan these items is prohibited.• Taking baitfish or fishbait is prohibited.
 
I tried a lot of rigs but have landed on ~18 ft 12lb maxima-> ~5 ft sighter-> ~4 ft leader-> tippet ring- one tag for shot, one tag for fly. I can only fish one fly but that's okay because there are much less hang ups. I've read arguments against tippet rings at this point in the rig but it saves me tons of tippet material.
 
I tried a lot of rigs but have landed on ~18 ft 12lb maxima-> ~5 ft sighter-> ~4 ft leader-> tippet ring- one tag for shot, one tag for fly. I can only fish one fly but that's okay because there are much less hang ups. I've read arguments against tippet rings at this point in the rig but it saves me tons of tippet material.
David, it is good to see you showing your face. Let's go fishing!
 
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