Teaching Fly Fishing In Gym Class...Great Idea?

[zenherper]

MKern wrote:
zenheper wrote: "I think FFing would be awesome for a club in schools, although I'm not sure it qualifies as physical education."

It counts for PE because the move in PE is lifelong activities. Fly fishing being one of them. It is designed to get young people involved in somehting they enjoy asnd can do by themselves or with a few other for years well into adulthood. How many high school football players play into their 40's; who here still plays soccer or football. However, there are many people to play pickleball, badminton or the most popular adult sport: volleyball.

Building hobbies and interests at a young age is important because most older people are stuck in their ways. IE think about what you eat; very similar to how you were raised. Creatures of habit.


BTW, wasn't about a month ago when somebody posted caloric burn of fly fishing; like 250/hour.
Thats a ton more than football or baseball.

Good points.

 

[FarmerDave]

salmonoid wrote:

rrt wrote:
With Gov. Ebenezer Corbett at the helm, it's not going to happen. The local public school district had to cut 8 of a total of 40 teaching positions to keep the small school afloat financially. Also, the remaining staff accepted a wage freeze. This type of activity occurred throughout the county. The mantra seems to be, "Reduce staff, reduce budgets, but increase standardized test scores with fewer resources." I think the ff club is a nice idea, but in today's educational scene, it's unlikely.

Geez - that kind of sounds like what most businesses have faced the past few years too, eh? How sad that the education world is feeling economic reality too.. Our local newspaper ran a front page story crying the blues of half a dozen school district employees being laid off, and wage freezes seem to garner front page attention too. I looked for an article when we laid people off from our company but I guess I missed it; maybe it was on the same page about wage stagnation in the business world? Having worked in education for eight years, I'd say schools should have some business owners acting as superintendents; cut out some of the bloat, reduce costs, and improve results.. For starters, consolidate the number of school districts in the state and eliminate all those redundant administrative positions.. I'm not education-bashing per-se; just saying that the environment you describe is what the business world has been struggling through the past few years. I think education is seeing a lag effect from the recession's affect.

If you mean consolidate the administrative end, then I agree, and I believe that is what you meant. If you mean consolidate the actual schools as in get rid of small schools in favor of big ones, then I disagree. I know you didn’t actually say that, but this sticks in my craw. That has been going on for many years, and the education has not gotten better, and the costs have not gone down. If anything, quality of education has gone down and quality of education should be the number 1 concern.

I think fly fishing clubs in HS would be a good thing, but fly fishing as a physical education class? Not so much. It's fine and dandy to offer it at a private school or a university where attendance is entirely optional and passed on to the actual consumer either indirectly in the form of higher tuition, or passed on passed on directly as pay to play. But no way should tax money be used to pay for it. Too many school sponsored BS activities as it is.

Poor old Johny can't afford to play. Oh well, the purpose of being there is education and preparation for the real world so that maybe some day he CAN afford such luxuries for himself and his own kids.

 

[FarmerDave]

zenherper wrote:

salmonoid wrote:

Geez - that kind of sounds like what most businesses have faced the past few years too, eh? How sad that the education world is feeling economic reality too.. Our local newspaper ran a front page story crying the blues of half a dozen school district employees being laid off, and wage freezes seem to garner front page attention too. I looked for an article when we laid people off from our company but I guess I missed it; maybe it was on the same page about wage stagnation in the business world? Having worked in education for eight years, I'd say schools should have some business owners acting as superintendents; cut out some of the bloat, reduce costs, and improve results.. For starters, consolidate the number of school districts in the state and eliminate all those redundant administrative positions.. I'm not education-bashing per-se; just saying that the environment you describe is what the business world has been struggling through the past few years. I think education is seeing a lag effect from the recession's affect.

Some good points, but I will point out that public schools are not, and should not, be run as financially profitable organizations. Our tax dollars are used to provide a service to community, so I understand that there are obvious fiscal consequences of economic downfall. However, we should not expect a reduction in the quality of these services, despite the economy. I for one, do not want my daughter's education to suffer because she had to come through during economic duress. Yes, there are some places that cuts could be made in public schools, but there are also a heck of a lot of places in public schools that could use more resources. I think we see public education in the news for a few reasons. Number one, everybody has a vested interest as we all pay taxes (ehhhhh.... most of us). Secondly, it sells, because it gives people something to complain about. As for cutting programs like music, art, etc..., IMO this has more to do with the increased focus on standardized testing than it does economy. Many "at risk" schools across the country started cutting these programs soon after NCLB (No Child Left Behind) was passed by George W. Ironically, almost all of the schools that cut these programs ultimately score lower on standardized test scores than before they cut said programs. As for performance, and increasing it, I guess that is a matter of perspective. If you believe that standardized test scores are a good measure or predictor of intelligence or success, then schools are on the right track, I guess. I for one think that schools should focus on preparing kids to make positive contributions to society. Whether that means continuing on to college, becoming a carpenter, becoming a farmer, etc... I just think that every kid is individual and more than a test score. And those who say the U.S. is falling behind in education should be reminded that we are one of the only countries in the world who educates every student. So when we compare test scores to those of students in India and Japan, we are comparing apples to Oranges, that is, their top students to 100% of our students. Those countries don't educate handicapped or special needs students in a public system. I agree that some districts could and should be consolidated. Anyway, I guess it all comes down to perspective, and how much you value education. I think it is worth the investment.

Sorry to rant... :roll:

I think FFing would be awesome for a club in schools, although I'm not sure it qualifies as physical education.

You know zenherper, as I started reading your response I immediately started looking for things to disagree with because I didn’t like the way it started. But you threw me a curve, and I have to say you made some very good points. Well done.

Curve balls were always my favorite pitch to hit, too.;-)

BTW, I'm not a fan of standardized tests either, but I chose not to partake in that part and I will admit lacking knowledge on how that is handled.

 

[RyanR]

MKern wrote:
Ryan R,
So the basic start up kit is $100 (give or take a few bucks). So I have a class or 40, plus 5 spares for when you darling children break them; so 45.

That's $4,500.

What do you think the average budget is for a PE teacher each year? (forget having to order the other stuff that I go through every year)
Some years an entire PE department has $400 to spend; divy that up 3 ways and I can get one rod.
You casn also bet that I'm not bringing my rods in to let 14 year old flair around.

On top of this, kids aren't very coordinated now, and heck they don't remember anything from day to day. It just sounds like a lot of fixing messes and untangling knots for 8 hours a day.

The club idea is really the way to go.

Every kid doesn't need a rod in his hands the entire 40-50 minute class. Get 5 or 6 rods and break the 40 kids each into 1 group per rod. Makes it much easier to effectively teach and supervise. They are simply casting rods with line, you don't have to worry much about tangled knots. After year 1 contact LL Bean for 5 or 6 more rods for your spares, do this every year or two and build up your program.

Also, you can get flyrod/reel combos for less than $100. I think they have programs for schools and such that you can get them for half that price. It really isn't that hard to teach flycasting basics. As I've said before, for years now we've been teaching it to 200 kids in one day (yes 8 hours.) That's kids between the ages of 10-17 from all different backgrounds and attention spans. We also teach it at almost all of our TIC release days. We probably teach it to close to 400 kids per year. And we're not paid teachers with years of teaching skills & experience just volunteers.

Other schools are doing it, one of our chapter members just retired from a NJ school and he go it started in his school. Yes budgets are tight but there are avenues out there to get help in getting that equipment. Some teachers partner with a TU chapter to help cover costs, etc. LL Bean has a great program. I'm not saying every teacher or school can handle it or even cares to try it just that it can and has been done successfully. I mean when I went to school at Easton, we even had archery in gym class and now bow manufacturers have come back with a program called Archery in Schools. Fishing manufacturers have similar programs at greatly reduced costs or even free for enterprising teachers or school districts.

 

[RyanR]

Farmer Dave, why are you against it being part of a phys ed./health curriculum? They have to teach some sort of activities. Taxpayer money is spent on flag football, frisbees, and other things. Why is it taboo to spend that same pot of money on flyfishing rods/reels? I mean that money is being spent one way or another, it's not money that gets returned to the taxpayer. Or are you in favor of eliminating phys ed from school spending?

Truth is the average taxpayer is mostly clueless to what their school district spends on these "school sponsored BS activities" and administrators use these activities (ie. sports, band, etc.) to fool taxpayers into believing that "tough decisions" are being made and if those programs are cut, somehow taxpayers will see it result in the line held on taxes for them. Extracurricular activities like sports and band typicallly make up only 1% of the entire school district budget. Cutting these things make absolutely no sense and only hurts the kids. Why? Because most taxpayers are ignorant.

 

[rrt]

For zenherper mainly: Thank you for saying clearly what I is true about today's public education system. In many ways, it is much better than it is given credit for being. Your point about 100% of our kids being tested and compared to the top students in other countries is something that most people do not know when they see comparisons being made by the media.
On topic: In an ideal world, ff in phys ed might be a good idea. Unfortunately, financial woes will most likely determine that ff will not be added to the curriculum, except in the most affluent schools.

 

[MKern]

I'm not against it, but having kids stand around is also again the basics of PE. Plus idol hands leads to behavior problems. I would think you would need a rod for every 2 kids.

It's hard enough to get kids to bring a pencil or book to class because the "forget" that they need it, let alone do their homework.

Not trying to be pessimistic, but just realistic.

Side note, I taught alternative ed for a year and did fly fishing. Some liked it some didn't; like most activities.

I think it would be awesome in a recreational unit: golf, fly fishing, etc.

Again, I think it is a great idea to have in PE class. I just think it would be better as a club. That way you only get those interested. Heck have it as both. I would teach it if I had the equipment. Living in Mifflin county it would probably go over well too.

 

[RRizz]

Salmoniod............ I could not of said it better. Amen to your your post.

 

[bikerfish]

we were taught archery in junior high school, kinda dangerous as I look back on that. there were arrows flying everwhere!! hard to believe no one go stuck!
it was fun though, everyone enjoyed it. I could see teaching fly fishing along the same lines. it's a healthy outdoor activity, no different than some of the other things we did in gym class.
kick ball gets old after a while. and really, a bunch of cheap glass rods, cheap reels and some cheap lines aren't gonna break the bank. the schools around me are all on a kick to pump millions into their football fields, which is a huge waste of money that only benefits a select few and not the majority of students.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

We had an fishing and hunting club back in my day.Activity periods are great ,but when the emphasis is on test scores ,well so much for that.
Political platforms look good with a tax cut plank. Problem is without the money something else gets chopped.IMHO Education should be the last place that money gets cut.I know that there is "fat" that should be trimmed,but lets look at what is really essential before the cutting starts.The aim.imo, is vouchers and privatizing Public Education.
I don't know about the suggestion of County wide districts,we have them here and it's just a bigger nightmare.

 

[troutbert]

Lots of flyfishers support more flyfishing education.

Lots of flyfishers are upset by crowding of flyfishers on the streams.

Maybe someone can work out the apparent conflict/contradiction here, and "splain" it to us.

If the number of flyfishers in PA was doubled, the degree of crowding on the streams would surely go up, wouldn't it? Surely the number of flyfishers that exist and the number of flyfishers out on the streams must be very highly correlated?

And would you consider the increased crowding that comes with more flyfishers a problem, or would the advantages outweigh the negatives?

(Explain your answers. Spelling and grammar will be part of your grade.)

 

[RyanR]

troutbert wrote:
Lots of flyfishers support more flyfishing education.

Lots of flyfishers are upset by crowding of flyfishers on the streams.

Maybe someone can work out the apparent conflict/contradiction here, and "splain" it to us.

If the number of flyfishers in PA was doubled, the degree of crowding on the streams would surely go up, wouldn't it? Surely the number of flyfishers that exist and the number of flyfishers out on the streams must be very highly correlated?

And would you consider the increased crowding that comes with more flyfishers a problem, or would the advantages outweigh the negatives?

(Explain your answers. Spelling and grammar will be part of your grade.)

It's natural turnover, we'll need replacements when all the cranky old-timers of flyfishing become food for garden hackle (ironic in its own way, isn't it?) :lol:

 

[JackM]

troutbert wrote:
Lots of flyfishers support more flyfishing education.

Lots of flyfishers are upset by crowding of flyfishers on the streams.

Maybe someone can work out the apparent conflict/contradiction here, and "splain" it to us. ...

Here is the explanation: they are generally two different groups or those that want both are insane.

 

[fadeaway263]

Mike you can get a ton of rods on ebay for 20 bucks or under

http://sporting-goods.shop.ebay.com/Sporting-Goods-/382/i.html?LH_ItemCondition=2&_nkw=fly%20rods&_fln=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=10&_udhi=20

 

[MKern]

I think when I take my prinicpal a link to a ebay to order rods he may chuckle a little.

 

[JackM]

eBay's not on the "approved vendors' list?"

 

[Troutbumguide]

in scotland most have a fly fishing club, it is actually an after school activity and can be done instead of other sports......awesome!!!!

I think it would be awesome if school opened up a fishing club or taught it in schools

 

[Gone4Day]

troutbert wrote:
Lots of flyfishers support more flyfishing education.

Lots of flyfishers are upset by crowding of flyfishers on the streams.

Maybe someone can work out the apparent conflict/contradiction here, and "splain" it to us.

Excellent point, best satirized by Ed Zern over 60 years ago in the classic:

CRIME DOESN'T PAY WHOM?

Several years ago a friend of mine grew weary of elbowing his way through hordes of fisherman along the banks of every trout stream within driving distance of New York City, where he then lived, and having no particular ties with the metropolis he pulled up stakes and headed west. When he found a western city with a nice climate and an even nicer trout stream flowing nearby, he bought a house on the outskirts of town and settled down as a permanent resident. Shortly thereafter he sent me a long letter with a rapt description of the nearby fishing with special emphasis on the fact that anyone who fishes the several local streams may not only latch onto large numbers of sizable brown and rainbow trout but may also have a mile or more of water all to himself, even on week ends. It sounded sensational.

Last year, though, the same friend sent me a batch of newspaper clippings describing his off-season activities. It seems he had organized 3,000 (or maybe it was 3,000,000) youngsters of the city into a gigantic Junior Sportsman's Club and was teaching them the basic elements of fly fishing - with classes in casting, fly tying and all essential phases of the sport. He was manifestly pleased with himself, and in an accompanying note he explained that the club would undoubtedly help to reduce juvenile delinquency and make fine, cleancut, wholesome citizens out of boys who would otherwise end their days in the hoosegow, if not actually in the hot seat.

Personally I feel that this guy is a menace to his fellow fisherman. If his program is successful he will have that mob of moppets sloshing around in trout streams, instead of loitering around pool rooms and gin mills, where they belong. And in a short while the streams in his neighborhood will be as crowded with anglers as the Esopus or the Housatonic or any other eastern river. It simply doesn't make sense. Instead of letting those kids go happily about their business of rolling drunks, holding up filling stations, smoking reefers, and other normal pastimes my friend is trying to herd them into streams and lakes, where they will be a real nuisance.

And regardless of what you may think of our penal system, the fact is that every man in jail is one less potential fisherman to clutter up your favorite pool or pond. Frankly, if there were more people in penitentiaries and reform schools and fewer on rivers and lakes it would suit me fine. They could all be paroled on the last day of the fishing season, with orders to report back to the warden and be locked up again on the following opening day; the money saved on prison food bills through this arrangement could be used for general stream improvement work.

In fact, I'm about to start, in my own neighborhood, a campaign to interest all youngsters in joining a Junior Crime Club, with courses in petty thievery, hijacking, pocket-picking, marijuana culture, breaking and entering, arson, counterfeiting, safe-blowing, disposal of stolen goods, felonious assault and other larcenous arts, criminal crafts and sinful sciences. Any member of the Club who is caught within five hundred feet of a lake, stream of pond containing any species of game fish will be stood in a tub of concrete until it hardens, and then sunk in the deepest part of the water that led to his downfall. And the only "tight lines" that Club members will ever know are the ones by which they swing from the gallows.

Here - have an application blank.

From "How to Catch a Fisherman" by Ed Zern, 1951.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

JackM wrote:
eBay's not on the "approved vendors' list?"

LMAO,Jack,thats so true and to see it in my retired years still brings a laugh. Also "low bid" aka crap,cheap crap at that .GG :lol:

 

[rrt]

For Gone4Day: Thank you. I haven't laughed so hard in months. Zern was marvelous, and today's version of F&S is certainly a sorry rag without him. "Crime Doesn't Pay Whom?" is both funny and to the point. Thanks again.