Question about Elk Creek

Listen, I am not trying to get in a pissing match with everyone about stream access and private property..... Its not like that at all. I should have never made the mace comment - I was just harping on the idea of "what if". I own a dog and I am not trying to hurt an animal unless its trying to hurt me.

I am fully aware of riparian rights and waterway law, to me this goes beyond property ownership and fishing access. This is more of a public safety issue. I respected his property I was not trespassing he allows people to fish his property; however, he is not respecting others safety while they're fishing there. If he has a problem with people on his property why allow the access? What’s the point of allowing people access to your property when people can potentially sue you for getting attacked by your dog? Plenty of people don’t know about his dogs. My point is the signs aren't enough. It's a serious enough situation that the PFBC should work the property owner to fence (electric/real) his dogs to the top of bank, where the signs are. There's enough money floating around in that fund to do something before somebody gets hurt.

Oh, to clarify I was not on his property (I don't think) we were downstream of the bend in the stream just below his neighbors house to the south - unless he owns that property to.... If so there's no signs there...
 
This thread is another good reminder for me to not bother making the drive all the way to Erie for steelhead. Between the crowds, access issues, inconsistent stream flows, etc. why bother?
 
or you could just say," crazy guy with dogs, maybe I'll fish elsewhere", and leave it at that.
 
I agree with you in a sense. I do believe it is illegal for him to allow access without making a reasonable attempt to ensure safe passage. No pissing match is needed here, and I do think every comment made in here so far was meant to express opinion, and not to harass you. When I get in situations like this, I try to look at it from both sides. I do have an idea on how I would handle this specific issue though. I would approach the land owner directly, or by telephone is he has a listed number. Remember to take your hat off if direct approach is your choice. Keep a clean, professional tone while talking to him, and try to work something out. He may tell you to get bent, but even if that were to happen, you haven't lost anything! I'm just taking a guess here, but I think there is more to this story. Not on your end, the land owners. He has more than likely had some unruly guest on his land at one time or another, and this is probably his reason for doing what he is doing.
 
FlyGuy,

Thanks, but like many people who fish in Erie I am not a local. That is not to be misinterpreted, though I treat all waters, public/private, with respect and dignity. I have many private fishing accesses where I am from and developed these relationships through the same processes you are referring to. This, IMO, is a different situation, it appears that the property has a PFBC Public Access Easement according to their website. If this is the case, there is most likely a clause in their agreement for safe passage to the stream/OHWM. Either way, what it boils down to is that I posted my own experience with this piece of property and I was just trying to keep those who venture by it aware.
 
The public access easement, indicates this gentlemen does not own the land under the water flows through. At least to me it does. Be careful not to get yourself hurt over a small portion of water. There are plenty of fish in the sea/stream/river/pond. :lol:
 
If the guy isn't going to control his dogs, he should just post his entire property. I have never been to this section of Elk Creek, but it seems that people should have the right to believe that they are going to be safe from any possible harm if they are actually abiding by the signs placed on the property. Based on some of the stories mentioned on this thread, that doesn't seem to be the case. If those dogs were to bight people, the property owner could possibly be liable.
 
Looking at the map of easements from the PFBC site, this property does not have an access easement on it. The properties upstream and downstream do, but not this one.
 
Two words..............Milk Bones.
 
From what I have been told, the Guy does not own the property, he rents it. If that changes anything I'm not sure.
I disagree that the side of the stream is posted properly. The first 2 signs(private property, beware of doug) are not visible until your well past the point of crossing back over the stream. The other 2 signs are 30 yards down stream and not visible when coming back up from down stream. As well, the signs are posted on trees on top of the bank, well above the normal high water mark. To me the signs say stay outta my yard, not off the area 25 feet below/in front of my signs. If this was posted properly it would look like the stretch on walnut. That is plainly posted and any one can understand which side
of the stream to walk. On top of that, the road side of the stream is not easily traversed with ice, high water, or all the fisherman who fish the big hole that is always full of fish.
I think this guy gets his jollys by freaking out fisherman. I have seen him, on more than one occasion, wait until people walking down stream are well past the mouth of the hole, then let the dogs out. I have heard him yell " go get 'em" ! And I've also heard his wife, or mother, yell at him to get the dogs back in the house and knock it off. Either way, I will walk the road side of the stream from now on.
I hate headaches of any kind, and especially a hassle while fishing! But this has been the best stretch of fishing for me in the 5 years I've been driving 2 hours to fish. I'm sure there are other
 
So similar to baskets for landowners... perhaps someone could approach him to discover what his desire is... stay on opposite bank, stay below the highwater mark, etc. Fishers could pitch in to make / buy the appropriate signs and place them in the appropriate spots.
 
Seems quite simple, you all know what he wants by the placing of the signs..."Stay the he11 out of his yard".
He just happens to have a couple dogs in his yard for those who can't read or think these signs do not pertain to them.
You know the I bought a fishing liscence and have my rights crowd.

Come try and walk across my backyard at night with headlamps on and I can guarantee you my Lab will not be quite as nice on "Trespassers".
God forbid someone pepper sprayed my dog, be just like sprayin one of my kids and there would quite dire consiquences for the offendee.

 
My first contact with that landowner with dogs were in late fall 2010.
I was nymphing and slowly walking downstream. When i was at the end of that pool in front of his property i could hear that somebody opened the patio door and released his dogs. In the corner of my eye i noticed 2 dobermans running towards me. Without a hesitation i crossed the river as fast as i could.
It was clearly my fault , but at that time i did not notice any Posted signs. I was walking downstream staring at the water and constantly casting my flies in the current.
Two minutes later he walked of of his house. I apologized and told him that it was not my intention to walk on his property. He accepted my apology and told me next time to walk on the other side of the river.
Last year we found out that the other side could be dangerous with slippery rocks during high water and snow/ice conditions.
I will be there soon - during first weekend of January.

 
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