Put and take philosophy puts the shut down on everything!

[cricketontherun]

Why is it that every spring each "approved" stream that the state dumps a bunch of non-native trout into is then off limits to every other species that naturally exists, and swims freely in those waters? I really have a hard time wrapping my mind around this idea. First off I'm not much of a supporter of the put and take philosophy. Yes I catch a few stockies here and there, and I do some steelhead fishing (that's a whole other ball of wax there) but mostly I believe in fishing for wild and native species.

I could understand making all approved trout waters catch and release only until opening day, but not off limits to fishing all together! Personally I'd rather go catch a couple smallies in early spring than 10-8" stockie bows. Not to mention this puts a ton of pressure and traffic on the otherwise small sections of our rivers and streams that are delayed harvet or C&R year round. I'm looking for a little enlightenment here, and maybe others share my frustration.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

My guess is logistics. Its probably easier for enforcement to make a blanket "hands off" approach to a stream than it is to stop every angler to make sure they aren't targeting trout.

I do tend to share your frustration a bit. I've gotten the smallie itch a bit in this warm weather and my favorite stream happens to be ATW. I have plenty of other options of course, still, I can relate.

 

[dryflyguy]

I can understand the frustration - especially with the early spring weather this year.
However, I can certainly see how opening up all stocked waters to catch and release fishing now would cause many headaches for the fish commission.
This is probably the busiest time of year for the WCO's - getting all of the ATW's stocked for opening day. And they certainly would have no time to patrol all of these waters to make sure that anglers are letting the fish go.
And I'm sure there would be quite a bit of mortality of the fish before opening day, which is still when the majority of trout fisherman go out.

I'm quite satisfied with the amount of special regs water we have to fish. There are certainly a lot more of them now, than when I started FF 30 years ago

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Sasquatch,

+1

Plus, I think there is also the rather universal thought that catch and release fishing isn't often practiced the same way by every angler?

How you, or I, or cricketontherun, treat a "bycatch", as it is termed in the commercial fishing world, can be vastly different.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[LongWader]

State budgets are tight and with the limited enforcement resources we don't need to make it even more challenging. I live near a put and take stream and have already shamed three poachers out of fishing one stocking spot and that was only during the few times I was passing an access area near my house. They gave me silly excuses like they were fishing small feeder creeks that were no where near where they were accessing the stream. Not only were they poachers, they are not very bright poachers, or they assumed that I did not know the area. When I nicely informed them that their reasoning did not hold up and pulled out my cell phone they high-tailed it.
Many recently stocked trout are pretty much in shock and sulk on the bottom until they get a chance to adjust to stream conditions. I think it is more sporting to give the fish a least a little time to acclimate. I have seen club situations where a stocking truck shows up a long with 50 guys who immediately start taking the fish within minutes after they have been stocked.
It just seems fundamentally wrong to me on a whole lot of levels if you what to call fishing a sport.

You can fish the FFO, CR and TT areas or non-designated trout streams for a few weeks if you really need a fix.

 

[tomgamber]

Yeah, cause everyone would release..haha...and a 20 percent mortality rate on C&R makes it a poor decision. There are plenty of other waters not stocked. man, someone always has to biotch about something....

 

[The_Sasquatch]

You said "biotch" hahaha!

I believe "biotch" is a noun, not a verb ;-)

 

[tomgamber]

really, that's your argument?

I guess it takes one to know one... ;-)

 

[djs12354]

Actually, "biotch" can be a noun, a verb, or and adjective.

It's one of those all purpose words.

 

[Squaretail]

Seems to me its as much about tradition as anything. 1st day used to be as much of an event as 1st day of deer season in my childhood neck of the woods. School used to allow absenteeism for the friday before and monday after 1st day of deer and trout. No excuses necessary as we would get ready for that explosive first hour of the first day.

 

[djs12354]

Squaretail wrote:
Seems to me its as much about tradition as anything. 1st day used to be as much of an event as 1st day of deer season in my childhood neck of the woods. School used to allow absenteeism for the friday before and monday after 1st day of deer and trout. No excuses necessary as we would get ready for that explosive first hour of the first day.

While it didn't rise to the point of getting out of school, I can remeber excitement building for a month as we closed in on the "First Day of Trout". My Grandfather would take my brother and I down the road to Sugerman's where we would load up on tackle for Opening Day.

Starting fly-fishing has brought back some of that excitement for me.

 

[springer1]

I think 1 aspect of stockings' collateral damage is lost respect for the fish in general.

Here's what I mean ......

Most people don't have a lot of respect for hatchery fish who were raised to be killed, and really don't belong in the stream they were caught in.

And so some people then carry over that attitude toward wild fish, who were born in the stream, survived through stages of fry, fingerling ... all the time braving floods, winters, summer heat, herons, fishermen, pollution, etc. Bluegill or trout, it's the same.

When we go to a stream, we're visiting their home - they live there we do not. To us, it's sport but to them it's potential injury or death.

That's why while I think a general fishing report is fine .... But I also feel a specific reports (especially for wild streams) saying exactly where to go, how to fish, and with lots of details are disrespectful.

What? So, someone can use their latest high tech equipment with more than enough recon information learned at no price or effort or trial to them can catch simple little fish and then brag about it? I know I'm nuts sometimes, but I think that's really nuts and doesn't honor the fish..

Respect the fish, they deserve it more than we afford them.

Thanks for your patience with me.

 

[midnightangler]

A lot of the hatches are going to be over or essentially over by opening day: Quill Gordons, Grannoms, hendricksons, March Browns.
Seems like a real waste of a lot of good trout water. Especially since much of it has wild trout in it to begin with.

 

[Squaretail]

???
I've heard rumor of some grannoms on Penns, but I havent seen one hendrickson or march brown yet.
That would be mighty early even for this year.

 

[midnightangler]

We're a full month early. Those hatches started early last week.

 

[PACOFRANSICO]

I'v heard from a good sorce of march browns, granoms coming off. Hell the olives were coming off strong on spring march 10th!

 

[pcray1231]

It's simply about the tradition of opening day.

There's no need for the closed season, really. They do in season stockings too and those go just fine. As do the preseason stockings on special reg streams where you can fish immediately.

And over time, the closed areas have been whittled away. You got the extended season, so it's pretty much only the month of March now. And you've added special reg zones, the unlisted streams and the class A's are open to fishing, just not harvest. It's probably close to half of our viable wild trout water that remains open year round!

But on stocked streams, you still have that 8:00 a.m. starting gun where everyone shows up early, hikes and jockey's for spots, then friendly B.S. with strangers for an hour or two, and then simultaneously throws in at 8:00 sharp. And fishermen have spoken loud and clear in saying they PREFER that this tradition remain. I can't even say I disagree. It's how I started way back when I was a kid, it's now about the only time I fish with my niece and nephew (they're not normally into it yet, but they get excited for opening day), and it's probably how I'll start my kid too. Heck, we don't even keep em, nor do most of the other fishermen in that area of the state, but we're there to uphold a tradition and get the kids into it. Apparantly anticipation works on them. If I have to steer clear of a few streams for one whole month to get kids excited about fishing, I'm all for it.

 

[PennKev]

PACOFRANSICO wrote:
I'v heard from a good sorce of march browns, granoms coming off. Hell the olives were coming off strong on spring march 10th!

In the past two weeks I've heard black stones called grannoms several times. I also heard someone say they thought they were cahills!!!!!!!!!

I could believe that guys are seeing a few caddis, particularly in the next week or so, but March Browns in March? Nuh, uh.

Pass the salt.

We've had mild winters before and hatches have never been a month early because of it. The start of particular hatches might vary by about a week in either direction, but that's about it in my experience. Also, I think it has as much to do with weather and water conditions in the week or two leading up to the hatch as it does the severity of the winter.

(P.s. For those who don't know the story, "March Brown" is the common name for a mayfly found in England that does actually hatch in March. The name has been adopted for a vaguely similiar looking mayfly in North America that hatches later in the spring, typically mid-May)

 

[JackM]

I'm with Kev. Yet, there are always misfit mayflies that hatch way too early or way too late as regards the timing of the entire brood. I could imagine someone seeing an actual Grannom or Hendrix-on or even a few, but not a substantial hatch at this point. Now, may the QGs be over by the time we get out to look for them? Possibly, but I haven't heard a credible source saying any have been seen yet.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

That's the spirit Jack. Keep the faith! We WILL fish a QG hatch.