PFBC Commissioners and Tailwater Wild Trout-Article

[LehighRegular]

as chaz said, those hatches will likely disappear if the water remains cold - though green drakes actually hatch on a lot of tailwaters - tailwater hatches tend to be midges, bwo's, caddis, and drakes.

THis only tends to happen on really frigid tailwaters, like below Glen Canyon dam on the Colorado or the Green River to name a few.

The intention and as modeled is to try to keep the release cold...not frigid like what comes from Cannonsville on the West Branch. The WQ model shows releases between 55-60 F can be sustained all summer long. Certainly, the insect life present will be tolerant of those temps, if not only help.

The 30 miles of river temps below 68F will be aided by the influence of all the cold tribs entering the river and was demonstrated in the WQ model.

I honestly don't see many, if any, of the Lehigh's insects disappearing. The releases will not be super cold. If anything this may only help proliferate the aquatic life and make hatches more reliable.

 

[geebee]

LehighRegular wrote:

as chaz said, those hatches will likely disappear if the water remains cold - though green drakes actually hatch on a lot of tailwaters - tailwater hatches tend to be midges, bwo's, caddis, and drakes.

THis only tends to happen on really frigid tailwaters, like below Glen Canyon dam on the Colorado or the Green River to name a few.

The intention and as modeled is to try to keep the release cold...not frigid like what comes from Cannonsville on the West Branch. The WQ model shows releases between 55-60 F can be sustained all summer long. Certainly, the insect life present will be tolerant of those temps, if not only help.

The 30 miles of river temps below 68F will be aided by the influence of all the cold tribs entering the river and was demonstrated in the WQ model.

I honestly don't see many, if any, of the Lehigh's insects disappearing. The releases will not be super cold. If anything this may only help proliferate the aquatic life and make hatches more reliable.

i do hope so. but i think its a possibility - i know the Swift in MA is frigid because its a bottom release - 55F all year results in very little insect life in the first 1 1/2 miles or so.

after that, there are some stone fly hatches but still less than before the dam/tailwater.

 

[mr7183]

It's a delicate balance but I think I would sacrifice one of the hatches for the cause of a naturally reproducing year-round fishery.

 

[krayfish]

geebee

Directly below the dams on the Delaware the variety of hatches might be reduced but a few miles down, the diversity picks up again. It happens on both branches. Cannonsville release in July is around 43-44 degrees. I believe this plan will work for the Lehigh as it has done well without the thermal bank being managed. Where I think it would be the biggest success though is below Raystown. That could / should be a world class fishery if this plan ever gets off the ground. It seems unlikely due to the worry of damaging the striper fishery in the lake.

 

[geebee]

krayfish wrote:
geebee

Directly below the dams on the Delaware the variety of hatches might be reduced but a few miles down, the diversity picks up again. It happens on both branches..

yes, thats what i thought.

its swings and roundabouts - you lose a couple of miles of hatches and possibly natural reproduction, but gain a year round fishery in the upper section in the winter, and better summer holdovers in the lower sections.

management of stocks beneath these dams i know is tricky - browns will back out of stocking areas if the temp is too high or low, and bows sometimes just disappear for no reason (head to sea ?)

the attempt at a natural fishery below the Swift dam has failed numerous times - from not enough spawning and holding structure they think, plus the Quabbin doesn't hold big populations of shrimp.

many dynamics i think. no simple thing.

 

[LehighRegular]

Where I think it would be the biggest success though is below Raystown. That could / should be a world class fishery if this plan ever gets off the ground. It seems unlikely due to the worry of damaging the striper fishery in the lake.

Krayfish....I agree. What I heard is "they" don't want to mess with the striper fishery. However, I think some of those "people" think 45 degree water is needed all year long.

For Raystown, the stream is a relatively short distance to the Juniata. They could probably get a way with 60-65 Deg F water being released and still maintain the stream temps conducive to trout.

I can't imagine that hurting the lake Striper fishery. That lake is HUGE. Sometimes I don't think people think outside the box. Mix water from the bottom and from the top to get the desired temp....and wham-o....Maybe I'm wrong or don't have enough info...or both??

 

[Fishidiot]

I don't think you're wrong LR.
I agree that Raystown has enormous potential to be a world class tailwater trout fishery. I'm not sure of the technical challenges or issues but I can't imagine it would have much effect on the world class warm water fishery in the reservoir. The lake's depths are well oxygenated and there is a two tier fishery in the lake with smelt and trout in the cold water depths. Not sure if drawing the water from lower down would effect this either (I don't think so).
I wish the PFBC will continue to consider this.

 

[krayfish]

I saw making it a relatively low release in cfs and keep it near 50-55. That will keep it around 60 where it joins the J. It would keep the big river as trout / seasonal habitat for another couple miles. I'd have to believe the influx of cooler water and more oxygen would benefit the smallies as well. I'll bet that if the main river flow got low and hot 78-80 degrees, the bass would gather on the west bank enjoying the cooler water. The cold water pool has got to be enormous in that lake. They can spare it and the release should make a positive impact for miles below the junction.

On the Lehigh, he WW release handcuffs the corps.

These places can get away with mother nature determining the flows and temps until early summer. Releases from early June through Sept 1 would make all the difference in the world. I think the FUDR have proven putting cfs in the river makes all the difference. Taper down flows slowly or ramp them up slowly. If you shut off the tap, you might strand 25% of the insect population above the waterline. It can work for all parties and don't get the hesitation. Study all you want and make 100 charts if that makes you happy. Let's get cold water and Whitlock boxes in the rivers in the meantime.

 

[krayfish]

The eggs would be from wild stock and not the genetic misfits the pfbc stocks. I'm 100% sure there's already some wild stock swimming around over there already.

 

[RLeeP]

I want to compliment mt_flyfisher for his thoughtful, considered post (#72) on this topic. I was one of the folks who made a lot of noise earlier in this thread about dams and Kinzua in specific, although a lot of it was tongue in cheek. The core point remains, however. I would be adamantly opposed to any changes to the Kinzua outflow aimed at extending the CW fishery downriver. It would be, IMO, a narrow-interest generated insult to one of the best warm/cool water fisheries in the state.

Do what you want to the Lehigh or even the dams on the big NC freestones (Stevenson/Bush dams), but leave what remains of the natural Allegheny alone. That would be my view, anyway..

 

[troutbert]

I think there is a lot of potential on the Raystown Branch, from the dam down to the confluence with the Juniata.

This could be done in such a way that it does not impact the Juniata smallmouth fishery, by adjusting the temps such that they are about 70F at the confluence in the summer, rather than going for ice cold.

 

[RLeeP]

My knowledge of Raystown Dam and the historic flows in the upper Juniata basin is limited, but just as a guess, I'd think that the Raystown Br. would be preferable to the Allegheny if this sort of change to releases, etc. were to be tried somewhere in order to produce a CW tailwater. My understanding is that one of the factors that caused problems for the WW/CW fishery in the Allegheny below Warren was the annual reductions in releases from Kinzua in drier years to facilitate access to ACE and PFBC boat ramps. This was evidently usually done just about the time the river bass went on the beds and hurt successful bass spawning. At least this was the opinion of the Area 2 AFM at the time. If the year is already dry and the river low, these release changes might have been enough to negate a lot of the flow help the Allegheny got from the Brokenstraw and Conewango systems, as they are mostly surface water dependent (even considering the relationship between the Conewango and Chautauqua Lake) and would also be low. It might be that the more stable limestone flows in the Juniata basin above Raystown would mean less of a potential problem along these lines. I'd be curious though as to how they've handled this boat ramp issue over the years at Raystown and whether there has ever been any impact from it on bass spawning in the main stem downstream.

 

[Chaz]

One of the reason the Lehigh has the variety of hatches it now has is the fairly wide swing of temperatures. You may not get that with a constant flow of 55 to 60 degree water, it's like to still have the swings because it's not a particularly big reservoir nor is particularly deep.Add to that the management window for release s is very narrow, between 1370 and 1390 Ft. I don't see a reasonable plan happening unless the upper limit is raised.
the Flow plan is not realistically fish friendly. There has to be a steady release of cold water, you can't have a release for 3 days and then none for 6 days , and none for the summer. Summer is when the releases are needed and they don;'t have releases set for fish during the summer. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[studiomule]

The study released by the ACOE modeled 6 new options, the one they identified as the best at maintaining water below 70 degrees through summer (to Lehighton) was having a pool elevation of 1438' and a white water release schedule similar to 2010. Water releases wouldn't be a steady 55 degrees all season, I'd expect that a healthy population of invertebrates would survive and thrive. One issue brought up with that scenario is that the level of dissolved oxygen could be low from the outlet to the tannery bridge.

 

[LehighRegular]

Studio

Yes...that is the pie in the sky scenario. No worries about running out of coldwater or problems with WW releases in that run. That scenario requires the dam breast height to be increased and a new tower. This would turn the impoundment into a sizeable lake. That scenario is big bucks compared to the others, but the Corps said its not out of the question and should be considered because of the major benefits to the ecosystem and recreation.

I also thought there was a run with the lake at 1392 Elevation that showed very favorable results too. Water temps might not have been as far down river as the one you discussed but still 25 miles of river.