Natural Repro of Muskies in PA: North Branch Susky

[Solitariolupo]

When talking to the guy who worked at the hatchery. Of course he said money was an issue on buying the food to feed them so I guess they can only feed them so much. I'm sure those pellets are stunning their growth. He said that they have to keep them the same size cause if one is a little bit bigger it will eat the smaller ones and overnight be double their size. So with an healthy river those things are growing like monsters in no time. Just think they grow from spring to fall they are 10 in or so when they stock.

 

[Solitariolupo]

nomad_archer wrote:
I realize wading for them is well a very tough proposition. But the plans for a boat fit in about 2 years down the road. I think this season I will focus on bass and learning to tie bass bugs before I move up to targeting musky.

Wading for them is a lot easier now. Spring and fall. Just fish for them like you would bass but the harder part is finding where to go for them. Once you find them always go back.

 

[fly_flinger]

Dave_W wrote:

Afishinado grew up on the North Branch and can tell you stories about how some locals feel about muskies. :-o

Sadly, the "Kill muskies because the eat everything and ruin fishing for other species" mentality is pretty common. Last year I was fishing a creek in SEPA that that holds a few that come from the lake. I talked to a guy who was also fishing and he told me he caught several over the last few weeks and killed every one over 40" because "They are eating all the trout". I shook my head and walked away.

 

[codym21]

Ive heard mixed reviews from people who fish that part of river regularly so to stop the stocking all together might not be the right idea but what do I know.
What I do think should happen is the state should protect the resource and increase the creel size to 45-50 inch from the 40 inch mark which it is at now.

 

[Mike]

How do angler's "know" that stopping stocking may not be the right idea? Electrofishing catch rates of naturally produced young Muskies substantially exceed, as I recall, those in one of the top Muskellunge states where fisheries are managed without stocking. Excessive Muskellunge stocking, if it occurs, not only wastes money, but keeps Muskelunge small(er).

Why increase the size limit statewide yet again when it is unlikely that harvest is limiting population abundance? Such higher size limits have not been shown to improve size structure or abundance in the study that I reviewed, but let's give the lesser 40 inch length limit a chance to show whether there is any measurable response in the Muskellunge populations in Pa lakes. Those studies have been underway for 5 years. When a length limit is higher than 40 inches it pretty much puts all of the harvest pressure, such as it is, on just the females. It is an uncommon male that exceeds 40 inches and it appears at the moment in present Pa studies that many males may never exceed 35-36 inches. If, however, one wishes to preserve high catch rates and one is not concerned about slow growth and perhaps only fish that are less than 35 inches long, a 45 inch length limit might be fine in some limited waters that could be called "action waters" for lack of a better term. In the past two years Leaser Lake has been an action water even without the 45 inch limit due to excellent survival of a single stocking combined with the new lake effect.

Frankly, from a personal viewpoint, I am growing more concerned by the poor handling techniques reported as being displayed by some anglers and the potential for delayed mortality as a result. I think that many angler's in large part are not geared up for or prepared to handle a fish of that size, strength, or sensitivity to handling stress, particularly when a muskellunge is a surprise catch. And it could even be that picture taking of an already stressed fish adds to the problem.

 

[Susquehanna]

And it could even be that picture taking of an already stressed fish adds to the problem.

How do you feel about rocks? ;-)

Great post in totality.

 

[sandfly]

nomad,
That is some pretty awesome news. I have never targeted toothies outside of a pike trip to Canada. Those pike were a blast.

used to go above the town of manawaki for pike and walleye.
north branch susky trough new York has a lot of musky up above binghampton

 

[fly_flinger]

Mike wrote:

Frankly, from a personal viewpoint, I am growing more concerned by the poor handling techniques reported as being displayed by some anglers and the potential for delayed mortality as a result. I think that many angler's in large part are not geared up for or prepared to handle a fish of that size, strength, or sensitivity to handling stress, particularly when a muskellunge is a surprise catch. And it could even be that picture taking of an already stressed fish adds to the problem.

+1.

A responsible musky fisherman should have the tools to get the fish back in the water quickly. At a minimum you need long nose pliers, hook cutters, jaw spreaders( more for the angler's safety) and a large, even huge, net. A huge net, although not fun to carry if wading, can really help with the release. In a large net the fish will relax and it provides the angler a chance to remove the hook while the fish is still in the water. Once the hook is removed a quick photo can be shot and back in the water it goes. The fish only needs to be out of the water for a few seconds. And a Boga Grip is not an appropriate tool from muskies!
It's also important that an angler know how to actually hold the fish. Like any fish, getting your fingers, or in a musky's case possibly hand, in their gills will greatly increase the chance of that fish dying.
Although this guy is a bit goofy, he provides good information and is very passionate about these great fish.
https://vimeo.com/96943937

 

[jifigz]

I spend a lot of time on the Juniata and muskies are quite common in the stretch near where I live. I hope there is good reproduction happening here and it'd be naive to assume that it isn't happening it just depends how much. I personally think Tiger Muskies are a waste. I understand their advantages in some ways but why not just try to always establish a population that can actually sustain themselves?

 

[Solitariolupo]

Tiger Muskies are sterile. This is because it's a hybrid with a pike and musky. They do this so they can stock them in the lakes, that they stock with trout. I don't get it also, but I guess since they stock trout they don't want natural reproduction going on. Guess they are afraid they will eat the trout.

 

[Dave_W]

Solitariolupo wrote:
Tiger Muskies are sterile. This is because it's a hybrid with a pike and musky. They do this so they can stock them in the lakes, that they stock with trout. I don't get it also, but I guess since they stock trout they don't want natural reproduction going on. Guess they are afraid they will eat the trout.

Tigers are stocked in western states precisely because they can't reproduce and become a menace to native fishes as introduced pike and lake trout have (they've developed quite a following among FFers out west incidentally. They're very popular.) .

However, here in PA I've never heard anything about tigers being stocked in trout waters only due to preventing reproduction. Both tigers and purebreds are stocked in trout waters around here.

 

[Dave_W]

jifigz wrote:
I hope there is good reproduction happening here and it'd be naive to assume that it isn't happening it just depends how much.

I agree that some muskie natural repro in the J is likely. Hopefully the PFBC can expand their muskie YOY surveys to the J. After all, they have well worn bass survey protocols for the J, I would think adding muskies to the study would be doable.

This would be especially good info to have on the middle section from Lewistown down to Newport since muskie stocking ended in that section over a decade ago.

 

[jifigz]

Dave, I'd love to have you up to fish the stretch right by my house. We even have a fishing cottage just finished not too long ago for rent. Either way there are plenty of muskies lurking in this stretch.

There was a comment earlier about the bass guys not liking the greater numbers and natural reproduction of muskies but I would be much more worried about those flatheads making their way up there and doing their damage to the bass. I'm sure flatheads are a blast to catch as well, however.

 

[Solitariolupo]

Dave_W wrote:

Solitariolupo wrote:
Tiger Muskies are sterile. This is because it's a hybrid with a pike and musky. They do this so they can stock them in the lakes, that they stock with trout. I don't get it also, but I guess since they stock trout they don't want natural reproduction going on. Guess they are afraid they will eat the trout.

Tigers are stocked in western states precisely because they can't reproduce and become a menace to native fishes as introduced pike and lake trout have (they've developed quite a following among FFers out west incidentally. They're very popular.) .

However, here in PA I've never heard anything about tigers being stocked in trout waters only due to preventing reproduction. Both tigers and purebreds are stocked in trout waters around here.

Yes they do stock them together but according to the guy at the fish hatchery, this is what they do. The way he made it seem was so that they have more control over them. If you look at the stockings it is true, the pure breed are more stock in the rivers, lakes like pymatuming, lake Arthur, lakes that aren't being stocked with trout and the ones that are, just get tiger musky. Either way they get big and are fun to catch.

 

[jifigz]

All fish are fun to catch as they all put a tug on my rod. Tiger Muskies are cool, but a wild born muskellunge or pike is always cooler. Like I said though I can understand the reasons for stocking tigers.

 

[Dave_W]

Tigers are neat and - while I tend to think the future of muskie management in PA leans toward purebreds - I really like the way tigers look.

I'm currently painting a portrait of a life sized tiger muskie. The spots, bars, and background colors are just fascinating - not easy to paint though. I'll post the image when I get it finished.

 

[Dave_W]

jifigz wrote:
Dave, I'd love to have you up to fish the stretch right by my house. We even have a fishing cottage just finished not too long ago for rent. Either way there are plenty of muskies lurking in this stretch.

No doubt buddy, it's long overdue that we wet a line together - been on my bucket list for awhile.

As I've said before, I envy where you live...and the cabin sounds wonderful. I usually fish the lower J since it's just closer to me. I do get up around your neck of the woods once or twice every summer.

Please check your PM.

 

[mike_richardson]

LOL when and where are these stockings taking place. I need all the help I can get. LOL Ill be a musky stock truck chaser. LOL!!!

Ironically though I have never seen anyone post any pictures of small muskies?

 

[Dave_W]

mike_richardson wrote:
Ironically though I have never seen anyone post any pictures of small muskies?

There's a brand new pic today of a young muskie.

I've caught a few fingerling and yearling muskies and some pics of little guys have found their way onto the forum over the years (but you're right, not many). Got about a nine incher on a hellgrammite fly once.

Do enough river bass fishing with streamers, especially in the colder months of the year, and you'll eventually stick a little muskie and probably some walleyes.

 

[jifigz]

True. All of those fish share the same stretches of water through the colder months. If you fish the J, Susky, etc enough during the cold weather period you're bound to nab em if you know where to look.

Dave_W wrote:

mike_richardson wrote:
Ironically though I have never seen anyone post any pictures of small muskies?

There's a brand new pic today of a young muskie.

I've caught a few fingerling and yearling muskies and some pics of little guys have found their way onto the forum over the years (but you're right, not many). Got about a nine incher on a hellgrammite fly once.

Do enough river bass fishing with streamers, especially in the colder months of the year, and you'll eventually stick a little muskie and probably some walleyes.