Murder at Stans Pool

[franklin]

Just to add fuel to the debate. It's possible that more fish die each year in the C&R section of Penns just below the parking lot as die or are taken in some sections of the Trophy water.

The C&R water by the parking lot gets pounded by so many fishermen during the year that a couple percent mortality rate may end up with more killed fish than some of the remote Trophy water.

 

[TYoung]

I think that all streams and/or stream sections that are not stocked, should be catch and release only, and no bait fishing allowed. If people want to keep fish or use bait, they can fish the stocked streams. I know that this sounds a bit extreme, but is just my opinion.

Trevor Young

 

[jayL]

TYoung wrote:
I think that all streams and/or stream sections that are not stocked, should be catch and release only, and no bait fishing allowed. If people want to keep fish or use bait, they can fish the stocked streams. I know that this sounds a bit extreme, but is just my opinion.

Trevor Young

Would you be willing to concede high quality, year round fisheries to stocking and bait fishing, then?

I would think that to prevent an uproar from the majority of anglers, they would have to be bait fishing only.

Even if this means high quality streams that lack natural reproduction, the little J would be a candidate.

Or, are you suggesting that people must learn a (in their eyes, from many personal discussions with non FFers) prohibitively expensive, complicated, and seemingly difficult method of fishing in order to trout fish after mid may.

My point in playing devil's advocate here is that there are MUCH MUCH more pressing conservation issues than those that the knee-jerk blanket c&r suggestions address. Across the board, most of these issues could use the support of ALL anglers and outdoorsmen. Divisive action on the part of FFers is, IMO, highly detrimental. Access, habitat improvement, and propagation of the sport to younger generations are a few quick examples.

 

[FarmerDave]

franklin wrote:

jeff wrote:
How did Peta get involved in this post!!! I don't think gene is worried about someone harvasting a trout and eating it. What he and everyone should be worried about is some idiot harvasting 4 or 5 breeders out of a hole!

I believe FD is referring to the title by calling it murder.

Affirmative.

if I caused anyone any undue stress by not specifying that earlier ... Oh well. ;-)

Sorry Jeff, I wasn't talking about the actual content.

 

[TDB]

I understand the science behind it - I'm sure harvest isn't going to have a major impact on a creek like Penn's however, my bottom line is I would rather see those additional fish (the ones not harvested) swimming around - maybe some kid or some beginner can catch one. If they aren't there (harvested) then there is 100% no way that someone will catch it.... How can you argue with this?

For me, it isn't a huge deal b/c no matter if there is harvest in Penn's, Erie, Little J - doesn't matter - i'll still go and catch more than 99% of other anglers - I am not in C&R to boost my fishing enjoyment.

I just would like everyone to know that if a fish is caught and kept, there is no way it will ever strike another man/woman's fly, bait, spinner,etc... It is over with.

Just b/c it is a PFBC regulation that "permits" creeling doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

On a side note, would love to see how many creeled wild trout (or stocked trout in a year round fishery) end up with freezer burn... - I'll bet the # would pain you... So So many keep fish just b/c they can. - go home, show your buddies/family, etc.. ziploc them and see you next year.

 

[JackM]

I feel like a broken record to have to point this out everytime this discussion comes up, but while YOU may enjoy "just catching and releasing" a trout, other anglers enjoy catching AND KEEPING trout. When a stream or stream section is no-kill, these anglers are deprived of their ability to enjoy that water. It doesn't bother me to have areas set aside where such anglers cannot enjoy fishing in their preferred manner, but it does seem unfair to exclude them from all wild trout streams without evidence that their angling habits are detrimental to the fishery. Even to the extent that their habits have a small and even perceptible negative impact, it would seem reasonable to tolerate that on some waters so as to accomodate their recreational interests just as ours are accomodated on other waters.

 

[tomgamber]

There you go again Jack, trying to be fair.

 

[JackM]

Have You Hugged A Freezer Filler Today?

 

[MD_Gene]

I knew it was a dramatic Subject line. I wanted to grab people's attention. Sorry if I misled anyone. It was a short story so not much time invested. Let me be clear- I am not a fan of PETA. I do however disagree with “sharing the waters with those who want to take”. There are plenty of places for them to get their share. Plus, how many of those streams are “fished out” relatively quickly. So the “negative but only slightly perceptive” impact of people taking fish doesn’t seem reasonable. My brother takes his 4 boys trout fishing. They all try (and sometimes do) get their limits. That’s a lot of fish. If they fished Stan’s for a day, that would be an impact.

 

[JackM]

But they don't fish Stan's, do they Gene? A point worth considering.

 

[TYoung]

I guess that I wouldn't be so against bait fishing if more bait fisherman used circle hooks and not trebles. I understand that, if you are going to keep your fish, the type of hook that you use doesn't really matter. But if you are going put your fish back, please use circle hooks and please bring in the fish farely quickly. I see too many gut hooked fish that have take way too long to bring in, be thrown back in the water without being properly revived. Actually, I see way too many fly fisherman playing their fish for way too long.

On a totally different note, someone on this thread mentioned that during the summer, trout migrate out of the c&r section on Penns and move into the TT section upstream. Wouldn't it be better if the C&R section was above the TT section. That way the trout would have a pretected spot to found refuge from the heat during the summer.

Trevor Young

 

[FarmerDave]

TYoung wrote:
I guess that I wouldn't be so against bait fishing if more bait fisherman used circle hooks and not trebles. I understand that, if you are going to keep your fish, the type of hook that you use doesn't really matter. But if you are going put your fish back, please use circle hooks and please bring in the fish farely quickly. I see too many gut hooked fish that have take way too long to bring in, be thrown back in the water without being properly revived. Actually, I see way too many fly fisherman playing their fish for way too long.

Trevor Young

That reminds me of some questions I have been meaning to ask.

1. Can you get circle hooks in fairly small sizes. Not for trout, but for other fish, like panfish. there are some kids and all around novices that occasionally fish in my ponds, and they inevitably gut hook a bunch. I really don't care about the bluegills and bass, or even the catfish at this point. There are plenty, and I need to remove some anyway. But I do still have a few hybrid sunfish in there, and I want to see how big they will get. Very agressive and well over a pound already, but the agressiveness means easily gut hooked.

Kids and novices tend not to set the hook, and circle hooks are the way to go.

2. And this one brings this back on topic. How effective are circle hooks on trout? I would think they are not very effective do to the structure of the trouts mouth. Just a slightly educated guess, and I think it is a fair question.

By the way, I bought some big circle hooks for catfish. First catfish I caught? Gut hooked. Tea, I know they work. Probably bad luck... for the fish.

 

[FarmerDave]

gene_cyprych wrote:
I knew it was a dramatic Subject line. I wanted to grab people's attention. Sorry if I misled anyone.

Dramatic? Ya think???

I thought it was a real crime... Can't get much more serious than murder. Then I find out it was a couple fish probably taken home for dinner? Fish are not people. On this site, you don't have to go to such extremes to draw attention. Are you a vegan? If not, then you are a hypocrite. Is so, then you got a different set of issues. that kind of crap bugs me. My ancestors didn't fight their wat to the top of the food chain to be knocked off by a bunch of root eaters who will go out of their way to not step on an ant or a cockroach. Or for that matter, a hypocritical C&R posterboy. Yea, I C&R wild trout, but that is simply my choice. the way it should be. did you notice they didn't C&R in "the movie?"

It was a short story so not much time invested. Let me be clear- I am not a fan of PETA.

Then please try to sound just a little less like them.

I do however disagree with “sharing the waters with those who want to take”.

Then fish somewhere else. It looks like they weren't breaking any laws. There are plenty of places where anglers can't harvest, even on that same stream.

There are plenty of places for them to get their share.

and plenty of places for people to fish who have a quasi-PETA mindset. Peta is actually against all fishing. "Fish are people too." They may even be more against C&R than they are against harvest. Think about it. I shouldn't have to explain that one.

Plus, how many of those streams are “fished out” relatively quickly.

None. I haven't seen a stocked stream yet that has been completely "fished out." It does get harder to find or catch them, or sometimes the water gets too warm for them (in stocked streams), but fished out? I have no idea why I am arguing this point because I actually prefer people to think they are fished out. The best time to fish a stream is once it is "fished out" IMHO. No crowds.

I think that fills my quota of reality checks for the day. Somebody else will have to play along with LJ.

 

[jeff]

Farmer Dave,

I thought mention of the word PETA rubbed me the wrong way!!!

It sounds like all you have to do is think about them, jeez!!! LOL


If you are interested in some info on circle hooks I stumbled across a website the other day thay has some useful info.


www.moffittangling.com


Jeff

 

[Hook_Jaw]

Rules are rules the rule is two trout 14 inches. It will always be all tackle trophey trout im sure so quit crying like little babies. There wont be anymore takin in a month anyhow until next year. Penns has been fine with these rules for a long time it won't change and there is no reason to change it. Yeah and by the way the ones that say bait fishing should only be on stocked streams is a moron.

 

[JackM]

Tone down the insults, please. The matter can be discussed and disagreements voiced without calling names and hurling insults.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

The truth hurts they just won't let it alone about the rules it's the way it is for a reason bait fishing is here to stay get used to it.

 

[LehighRegular]

My personal feelings is that I hate to see this happen. Now, is this type of activity and/or bait fishing limiting the population of wild trout in Penns. I think this is exactly the type of thing the PFBC commissioners are going to try to answer. Can there be a higher population of bigger fish in Penns if this did not occur year after year?

THe argument that making this TT stretch into CR ALO is limiting people from fishing it is getting old. If changed to CR ALO, there is nothing stopping anyone from fishing it. They just have to abide by the law/regs. What is so difficult about that? Again, god forbid some change methods they like to fish.

Just like the old cereal commercial.... "Mikey will try it...hey look, Mikey...he likes it" .... or something to that effect.

More importantly....For the sole reason I think this stretch needs to be CR ALO specifically is due to the TT stretch being a thermal refuge area. THe fish from the lower Penns - C&R area and open water below the C&R move up into this stretch each season to seek refuge from warm water temps.

I could also get into genetics and spawning results and affects of removing fish of this size too, but that has been beating to death before as well.

 

[pete41]

Can there be a higher population of bigger fish in Penns if this did not occur year after year? quote

More to the point is this what the majority wants.
Push the issue too hard and you will get a backlash you will regret from the non-fishing public-
Catch and release SOUNDS like elitism .

 

[JackM]

It is a very easy thing for those of us who release all fish to think that limiting harvest is no big deal, doesn't stop anyone from fishing, etc. Regardless of whether it would serve any purpose, imagine a regulation that prohibited use of fly fishing equipment on all wild trout streams, or even just on your favorite wild trout streams. You would not be prohibited from fishing, provided you use the allowed equipment of a spinning reel. Add to that a requirement that you keep any trout caught, even if under 7". Then, just for good measure, require you to stop fishing after catching and keeping 2 fish.

Remember, we aren't allowed to consider whether fly fishing and releasing trout have any discernable negative impact on the fishery. We just are required to deal with these new regulations because a small segment of the angling public wants them or thinks, without evidence, that they enhance the angling experience of others like them.