Let's talk lead.

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

troutbert wrote:
I used to use a lot of B lead shot with the little wings for removal. But my local fly shop quit selling it and now sells only lead substitute, which is fine because I want to move to non-lead anyway.

But none of the lead substitute shot they sell has the little removal wings. Is such a product available?

I tried pinching the sides of the shot with the pliers to remove the shot. Either that doesn't really work, or I'm using incorrect technique. Any tips on removing shot?

Troutbert,

Like you, I use the shot with "ears" for easy removal. Size "B" is my staple size, and I use the larger size "BB" for real deep, fast water.

I've read tips on how to remove shot without the ears. Supposedly you pinch them with pliers or hemos opposite of the slot (not with the slot as when you pinch it on to tighten it). Supposedly that opens it enough to allow removal. It has never really worked for me very well, so I opt for the ears on my shot. As I have written above, my flies don't spin, and they don't hang up with the ears like some will tell you.

I believe that "Water Gremlin" makes non-lead shot with "ears". You can find the lead and non-lead ones at Dick's Sporting Goods.

Very good, I'll look for those. Non-lead "B" shot with ears would be just the ticket. And as you say, "BB" shot for the really deep, fast places.

 

[gfen]

FWIW, I've managed to pop open microshot, when I haven't mangled it, with the can-opener blade on my knife.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

troutbert - Did you ever try the green coated Dinsmore's egg shaped shot? It's easy to open, doesn't slide on the tippet as much, and can be re-used over and over. Our mutual friend Don Douple sold me on it a long time ago. He did some tests (only Don would do this) where he opened and closed the shot, and some made it to over 100 cycles.

I really like only using one split shot, if I have to use shot. The great variety of sizes of the Dinsmore shot makes that easy. Having a long string of shot reduces sensitivity, IMHO. After using the Dinsmore shot for so long, I can usually just look at the stream and know what size to choose - just use "The Force".

H.A.

 

[troutbert]

Yes I've used Dinsmore shot. But I've had trouble getting them off.

When you say easy to open, how do you open them?

I have a great deal of respect for any flyfishing information or suggestions Don has to offer. Don knows stuff!!!

 

[Heritage-Angler]

troutbert wrote:
When you say easy to open, how do you open them?

If you open the shot a bit wider than they come before use, it makes it easier to open the second time. To open them, I just push my thumbnail into the hollow on the slot side, and they open right up. Just push your nail straight into the slot. My hemostats (Dr. Slicks) also have a screwdriver blade on the outside of the finger loop that works also.

This works well on the Dinsmore shot, as they're not as soft as lead. The green ones are coated with a plastic that grips the tippet, and helps reduce damage to the tippet as well.

 

[afishinado]

Heritage-Angler wrote:
troutbert - Did you ever try the green coated Dinsmore's egg shaped shot? It's easy to open, doesn't slide on the tippet as much, and can be re-used over and over. Our mutual friend Don Douple sold me on it a long time ago. He did some tests (only Don would do this) where he opened and closed the shot, and some made it to over 100 cycles.

[color=CC0000]I really like only using one split shot, if I have to use shot. The great variety of sizes of the Dinsmore shot makes that easy. Having a long string of shot reduces sensitivity, IMHO.[/color] After using the Dinsmore shot for so long, I can usually just look at the stream and know what size to choose - just use "The Force".

H.A.

Ed,

IMHO, one large shot causes your tippet to hinge a one point like this: >

And using a string of lighter shot spaced out (sorta like a centerpin rig) straigtens out your tippet and is much more sensitive to strikes, like this: \

Just sayin......

 

[jayL]

The non-lead water gremlin shot are no good. They are much lighter material. I believe it's tin. I don't think they even make a B size. The material is also very shiny. The result is a large, shiny object on your tippet. I have some and never want to use it.

 

[afishinado]

jayL wrote:
The non-lead water gremlin shot are no good. They are much lighter material. I believe it's tin. I don't think they even make a B size. The material is also very shiny. The result is a large, shiny object on your tippet. I have some and never want to use it.

I've seen them on the shelf, but I use the lead ones. Also, I soak my shot container in the stream and voila...when it dries the shot turns a dull gray color. I'm not sure if that will work with the tin ones though. I guess I'm considered a Neanderthal since I continue to use lead.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

afishinado wrote:
IMHO, one large shot causes your tippet to hinge a one point like this: >

And using a string of lighter shot spaced out (sorta like a centerpin rig) straigtens out your tippet and is much more sensitive to strikes, like this: \

Just sayin......

I'll dispute that theory.

If you're fishing with multiple shot, each shot has space between them that allows slack to form in the leader (unless you're suspending it below a float, or dragging it faster than the current). By using only one shot, if you're "in touch" with the shot, the only possible slack is from the fly to the shot, and you have that with multiple shot as well. This is why using a weighted fly is more sensitive than using shot BTW. Think about a Czech nymph rig - only one heavily weighted fly - the others are lighter.

If you're fishing by feel, how do you know all the shot on the line is stretched taught? You're actually doing the same as fishing one shot, but you're only feeling the uppermost shot. Keep in mind - this is more of a shallower water technique. In very deep water, the connection between the rod tip and the shot is tougher to maintain, and you do get a bow in the line.

This isn't my brainchild - it's a Gary Borger theory.

 

[afishinado]

Interesting debate. I Euro nymph a bit and all the flies are weighted, usually the anchor fly (the heaviest one) is in the middle of a 3 fly rig or on the dropper on a 2 fly rig. You can put the anchor on the end too. I also drop shot on occasion (weight on the point) to dredge the bottom.

ED Wrote: If you're fishing with multiple shot, each shot has space between them that allows slack to form in the leader ([color=CC0000]unless you're suspending it below a float, or dragging it faster than the current)[/color].

Multiple shot (spread out) works well with and Indy, since the surface current (where the Indy is) is moving the fastest. Also, in Euro-style nymphing you actually move the flies slightly faster than the current to stay in contact with your flies.

I nearly always use weighted flies for deep nymphing and only add a split shot to make it ride deeper if necessary. I've messed with this very thing for a long time, and if my flies will not get down, I will use heavy flies and small shot spread out between the flies and just above the uppermost fly. They run deep in a line that way without one heavy anchor point creating a hinge.

With an Indy, the Centerpin theory is that more weight is placed where the greatest current velocity is, in the upper water column, to keep you line more vertical on the drift.

All good stuff. Mess with it yourself to see.

 

[Fredrick]

Dr. Slick makes hemo's that have a pin in the jaws that is used for I believe to clear any obstructions in the eye of the fly . Well I also use it to open my split shot and it works for me very well for on any type of shot .

 

[wbranch]

For those of you who can't find the "B" size split shot Gander Mountain carries them as a standard item. They sell both the round shot and the "reusable" shot in sizes B, BB, 3/0, 5, and 7 - those are the sizes most guys might use for trout. There are larger sizes but I don't think you'd want to consider using them for fly fishing.